Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

[Bad Ass Black Trucks]

I'm tired of my Ty sitting and have been re-directing time and funds to getting it back on the road but I have a few questions for ya'll.

To give a little background, The motor is a 4 bolt BS motor with forged internals and ported L-35 heads. The cam is a crane 1439801. Going to be running a stock intake tract with a turbonetics 60-1.

Even though a lot of the parts improve performance, the purpose of the build was to make it more relaible. I'm not planning on cranking up the boost. I want to enjoy it and I have another project to break stuff.

Now for the questions:
-I have Comp 1.6 roller tip rockers for it. I have been seeing that the ARP Rocker Studs are not long enough for SyTy applications. Is this also true on my L-35 heads? What is the best way to get the extra spacing if I need it.

I also have another option on the rockers as well. I put self aligning crane gold race 1.6 RR's on on my LT4 with a 6 speed. I'm a little concerned that the size cam I put in that motor may be a bit harsh on self aligning rockers. Anyone think I should put the crane full roller rockers on the Ty motor and upgrade the LT4 to rockers with guideplates?

-Does a Ty motor need 1 piece hardened pushrods? Reusing pushrods from the old motor seems like a bad idea, but I don't know if 1 pc are necessary for this build.

-Should I put on an SFI Flexplate or get the factory one from the old motor zero-balanced? I'm thinking SFI isn't necessary because these motors don't spin at high RPM.

-I still have to get an oil-pump driveshaft for the Milodon 18755 that was recommended, nothing particular to look for there besides a regular SBC shaft right?

-Was thinking about repairing the crack in my RH turbo manifold. Cleaned it up and was ready to find and drill the crack tips. Had a friend look at it and he noticed that it was severly cracked on the back side too! I think it's too far gone to repair. The crack covers about 50% of the circumference. I have to either find a good RH manifold... and then worry about it cracking. Or I could dump a lot of money and go with headers, which from what I hear don't a whole lot better than the manifolds do. I think the manifold design from PAS sucks... now I'm venting. Now for the question, does anyone have a good way to support the weight of the turbo if I can locate a non-cracked RH manifold?

That's all I can think of for now. I'm sure I'll have more questions later.

 

[bdydrpds10]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

Not to interupt but I too am curious about the manifolds.

It seems that a lot crack.

I wonder if there was a coating or treatment that can be done that would help prevent the cracking?
The headers are expensive and like you mentioned don't seem to add much power.

 

[syclone3]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

any pics of the cracks? My uncle had had a Camino with a cracked manifold. Hiis buddys at his airport hangar said no way will nephew fix it. He had another engine sitting there. Bolted it to the head. Ground into the cracks some. Used Nickel rod with an old arc welder. But I also used a Mig welder. It lasted over five years out here. And he drove it year round when summer drives would be 110-115. Welded up a few Syclone manifolds with cracks also. Unless you can put a socket through the wall of a manifold its possible to fix it. We would put external WG flanges on DSM manifolds too and the early manifolds were not the greatest steel. Never had one fall off or break.

 

[Richard Le]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

-I have Comp 1.6 roller tip rockers for it. I have been seeing that the ARP Rocker Studs are not long enough for SyTy applications.

I am sure the studs are long enough for roller tip rockers since those rockers use standard OE looking lock nuts and not the taller polylocks.

-Does a Ty motor need 1 piece hardened pushrods? Reusing pushrods from the old motor seems like a bad idea, but I don't know if 1 pc are necessary for this build.

I'm using 1 piece hardened pushrods in mine.

 

[Bad Ass Black Trucks]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

Thanks for the replies.

I am sure the studs are long enough for roller tip rockers since those rockers use standard OE looking lock nuts and not the taller polylocks.

Good to know... wish I got all the locking nuts when I bought them on here, but that would make things easy. So it's the poly locks that make the ARP's too short then?

I'm using 1 piece hardened pushrods in mine.

Is that out of necessity or precaution? Since these motors don't turn high RPMs and my cam is not that aggressive I wouldn't think that is necessary. Have guys bent pushrods in syty motors? I typically hear of f-body guys missing a shift and bending a pushrod.

 

[Bad Ass Black Trucks]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

Not to interupt but I too am curious about the manifolds.

It seems that a lot crack.

I wonder if there was a coating or treatment that can be done that would help prevent the cracking?
The headers are expensive and like you mentioned don't seem to add much power.

I feel that the design by PAS was poor. If you think about it, that manifold has to support the weight of the turbo, cross-over, some weight from the downpipe and the intake. There is additional stress when you're wrenching on the turbo or messing with the intake. Add on the vibrations and movement of the motor in the engine bay (which is excessive with stock motor mounts) and you have a lot of stress with that turbo just hanging out there. That manifold takes a lot of physical abuse and metals get weaker at higher temperatures. The harder you drive, the hotter the EGTs get. Typically, automotive materials are cheap and the fact that it is cast increases the probabily of voids or inclusions. These defects can be crack initiation sites and once a crack starts it grows. Throw on stresses from thermal cycling hundreds and hundreds of times and its going to grow.

I think the answer would have been a beefier design or better materials. You really can't do much to make the manifold stronger now. I have heard of guys making brackets to distrubute the weight of a larger turbo, but I have not heard of anyone selling brackets to support the turbo.

 

[Bad Ass Black Trucks]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

any pics of the cracks? My uncle had had a Camino with a cracked manifold. Hiis buddys at his airport hangar said no way will nephew fix it. He had another engine sitting there. Bolted it to the head. Ground into the cracks some. Used Nickel rod with an old arc welder. But I also used a Mig welder. It lasted over five years out here. And he drove it year round when summer drives would be 110-115. Welded up a few Syclone manifolds with cracks also. Unless you can put a socket through the wall of a manifold its possible to fix it. We would put external WG flanges on DSM manifolds too and the early manifolds were not the greatest steel. Never had one fall off or break.

I was seriously looking into fixing the crack. The manifold needs to be bolted to a head, which fortunately, I have one sitting around. The combination needs to be heated to about 400* F, welded with a high Ni rod and cooled slowly in vermiculite to remove moisture.

I do have an environmental chamber that goes to 350* F and I can control the ramp rate during cooling so I had that taken care of. But I would have had to drill it in at least 3 places to blunt all the crack tips, and that was just on the front side. The fact that there is a larger, deeper crack on the back side exacerbates matters further... more drilling and grinding into the manifold. It would look like swiss cheese and it would be very weak during welding. It would be harder to get to the crack on the back side with it bolted to the head. Lastly the weld area would not have the same carbon content as the rest of the manifold, and thus a different CTE (coefficient of thermal expansion). Future cracks could result from the mismatch.

 

[Bad Ass Black Trucks]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

I have circled the locations that need to be drilled to stop the crack propagation in red. Sorry it's not bigger, must have hit the max resolution on flickr.

It's harder to see the crack on the back side since I have not cleaned it up yet, but it snakes around and up towards the exhaust port on cylinder #2.

 

[Big Mike]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

If you are running self aligning rockers and need more stud length add a hardened washer to raise the stud up just like a guide plate would. This may give you the length you need. If you have enough money you could get ARP to make you some to your specs, or you could drill and helicoil for standard threads in your heads and run any number of the studs made for small block chevy which may come in the length you need.

 

[wildphil]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

When I found that rocker studs were not long enough to use my self alighning rockers. I found a good quick way to correct the problem. Trimming a set of guide plates so they cleared the pushrods and placing them under the studs works pretty well.

 

[syclone3]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

Those cracks are fixable. If its not a daily driver vehicle that will see thousands of heat cycles. I wouldn't hesitate to fix the cracks and use that manifold. Its ones own decision. Was expecting much worse cracks and condition.

 

[Bad Ass Black Trucks]

Re: Few questions... Rockers, Manifolds etc.

Thanks for the input on the rocker studs guys.

Those cracks are fixable. If its not a daily driver vehicle that will see thousands of heat cycles. I wouldn't hesitate to fix the cracks and use that manifold. Its ones own decision. Was expecting much worse cracks and condition.

Daily driving duties will be shared between the Ty and a tired 94' V6 Camaro. The ty will be driven on nice days until the Camaro dies. Hopefully the camaro lasts one more year and I can build a syty motor for it.