Tuning for L35 heads.

[Tooky]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Wow Paul, that new ScannerPro looks really sweet! I remember you showing a killer histogram of AFR like that back in 2006... do you know what kind of time frame a ScannerPro 1.0 release is looking like? Those new histograms seem like they'd be especially useful like the Knock retard and AFR averages.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

I think I have it now. This cable would not be used for any tuning. That has to be done with something like an Ostrick emulator that plugs directly into the ECM. I think I understand the basics of what is needed now. Thanks to all.

 

[skwayb]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Wow Paul, that new ScannerPro looks really sweet! I remember you showing a killer histogram of AFR like that back in 2006... do you know what kind of time frame a ScannerPro 1.0 release is looking like? Those new histograms seem like they'd be especially useful like the Knock retard and AFR averages.

You can download it now and use it. (beta still but very useable) Not sure when 1.0 will be out. May never be. I know he is putting scanner pro into Tunerpro right now so I am not sure if Scannerpro will remain seperate or not. I am working on a ADX file for scanner pro but it will be awhile before I have it done.

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

I think I have it now. This cable would not be used for any tuning. That has to be done with something like an Ostrick emulator that plugs directly into the ECM. I think I understand the basics of what is needed now. Thanks to all.

Exactly that aldl cable is simply used to data log or monitor your vehicle's sensor and ecm out put... and if your still interested in that laptop/aldl setup of mine shoot me an offer. Im finally ready to let it go

 

[pinellas50]

Update

Update

Well, in my case it appears that L35 heads do not work with the stock system.
Plug #1:

Plug #2:

Plug #3:

Plug #4:

Plug #5:

Plug #6:

Here is the thread where I was chasing this down as a possible mechanical/parts issue if anyone cares to read: http://www.syty.net/forums//showthread.php?t=59685&page=1&pp=15

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Reader's Digest version: Ever since I got the motor back together and running with the L35 heads I babied it. I didn't start to push it some until I got Datamaster. That's when I found this vibration and anything above about 6 psi. The motor would start cutting out and sound like a two step was turning on. I only let it do this a handfull of times when trying to figure out what was going on and testing new parts. The motor doesn't act like it's hurt from this but I guess time will tell.

I put in a Walboro pump, new fuel filter, new distributor, and new catalytic converter in my quest along the lines of a mechanical issue. Of course I never checked the plugs because I foolishly believed they were fine because they were new.

Anyhow, now I am looking at my options. I understand that trying to tune it myself is the best route but I'm real nervous about trying my hand at that. I haven't seen or heard of any kind of chip made for stock everything except these heads. I also pondered the thought of just going to bigger injectors and an AFPR to get more fuel in it.

Biting the bullet and going the custom tune route is the only real solution here, isn't it? Or go back to stock heads which was a very labor intensive job but looking more and more appealing. But I really don't want to do that.

Oh, Datamaster didn't really tell me anything when all this was happening. But I am even less than an amature at reading what it is telling me.

 

[Tooky]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

You have to pinpoint the problem. Unless you switch back to stock heads and verify the vibration is suddenly absent, then you can't be sure it's the heads that are causing it. Doing a head gasket R&R is a huge job and requires so much disassembly, its a hundred opportunities to screw something up.

I know because I just did a HG R&R too, and I had a very bizarre problem afterwards, the truck ran like a bag of shit and idled rough and would eventually die. Took 5 days to troubleshoot and find that my 7 year old AFR Gauge (which I have never touched the wiring on, ever) seemed to be causing the O2 signal to read lower than normal and beginning a chain of events resulting in my truck running bad.

What about if you unhook the turbo wastegate flapper arm (so the door hangs open freely and allows all exhaust out) and then disconnect the turbo to IC hose, effectively making the truck N/A? Then go out and see if the vibration is still there at high RPM. It will only make about 150 HP and should isolate whether the problem is handling the air/fuel/spark at very high load, or if it's a general mechanical engine problem.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

That's a good idea. But I'm not going to even turn the motor over again until I get a wide band on it. Once I get that then I will feel a little more comfortable poking at it.

I've run this through my head a thousand times and I can't come up with anything that might cause a fueling issue like this other than the tune at this point. I've checked everything I can think of to check. Can anyone think of something I haven't? I forgot to mention that during the head swap it got a new O2 sensor as well.

I thought I had done just about everything possible to rule out a mechanical issue. I didn't know how to take the turbo completely out of the equation, now I do. I'll look into that but with the assistance of a wideband.

I'll also keep reading as much as I can about tuning to see if I can find it in myself to take that personal leap of faith.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

What about if you unhook the turbo wastegate flapper arm (so the door hangs open freely and allows all exhaust out) and then disconnect the turbo to IC hose, effectively making the truck N/A? Then go out and see if the vibration is still there at high RPM. It will only make about 150 HP and should isolate whether the problem is handling the air/fuel/spark at very high load, or if it's a general mechanical engine problem.

The flapper arm moves backwards(towards the front bumper) to open up the waste gate and bleed off pressure. Correct? Just need to know I am wiring the flapper in the correct position. Or is there no need to wire the flapper and it will do that on its own without the bar attached?

 

[Tooky]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

No the flapper swings towards the tailgate to open (maybe 45* angle), and pulls tight towards the front (leaving it vertical) when it's sealed/closed (like it would be 99% of the time except at WOT).

Leave the Wastegate rod off the flapper pin, the exhaust should blow it open no problem. Another thing I like to do is take my Turbo to IC Hose and leave it connected to the turbo but aim it towards the fender. That way you don't have to worry about your turbo compressor pumping air straight up into your hood and maybe damaging your under hood insulation. (Not that it's happened to me but you have to figure the turbo is still going to pump some air even with the wastegate totally open.)

I just did all this when I finished my HG swap, I like to test things N/A first before I apply the boost if I'm doing major engine work.

The only difference is I didnt have my intercooler installed so I just band-clamped some screen mesh over the open throttle body as a makeshift air filter. One thing I noticed is that it SEEMED (not 100% sure) like the tune changed with this setup. It's possible the air flows differently with just an open throttle body.

Bottom line - be aware but dont be surprised if it runs/idles a little bit different without the turbo connected, since the engine will be operating in a different area of the tune than it normally would.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Got it. Thanks. I'll report back when I get back from vacation.

 

[Tooky]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

BTW I just noticed, your #6 plug looks really crusty.. That black crap doesnt seem normal to me.

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Does anyone know if the Phil Long chip is still available? I sent a PM to turbo6 awhile ago but haven't received a reply.

Also, does anyone know what the casting numbers for the stock heads would be? Not the LB4's or whatever everyone normally refers to them as. I think the answer is in this thread http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=20725&highlight=casting in the cylinder heads section but I don't know what was stock on these motors even with all this spelled out.

Just looking at all options right now.

EDIT: Would these be the stock head casting numbers?

1987-’91 TRUCK, EXCEPT HEAVY DUTY AND ’87-’93 CARS: These heads were the same as the earlier ones except that they had three bolt holes on both ends. The intake surface above the ports was quite narrow; it’s only about 0.250" wide. The unmachined, cast ledge on the top edge of the head was 0.600" wide. Look for c/n 14094768, 10144103, 14099067 or 12553050. All of these heads had adjustable rockers.

1992 TRUCK WITH TBI AND NO BALANCE SHAFT: These heads had a wider surface for the intake gasket even though they didn’t need it because all of the tooling was changed to accommodate the new heads for the VIN "W" CFI engines that were introduced in ’92. The 10144103 casting was carried over from ’91, but it had the wide intake with straight ports on the top. It can be used along with any of the earlier 14094768, 10144103, 14099067 or 12553050 castings from ’87 through ’91.

 

[midnightbluS10]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Yes, I think those are all stock head casting #'s

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Stock heads are back on the truck now. I have to figure out why I have a code 42. The tan/black timing wire is connected. I also sprayed some contact cleaner on the connections.

I had disconnected the ecm at one point. I guess I'll drop that back down and see if I boogered a connection there somehow.

Anywhere else I could/should look for this? It's a brand new ignition module and distributor with about 10 miles on it so I'm not very quick to say that might be an issue. But mabey the wiring to it, or in it?

EDIT: Well, I can't find any loose, broken, anything else wires in this system. I'm still getting 42 but no CEL. I drove it around the block with Datamaster running. It was constantly dinging at me about the error code but I could clearly see that the computer had full control over timing.

I'll try leaving the batter unhooked over night to see if that clears the code out. But I'm thinking that the constant dinging means that Datamaster is constantly detecting the trouble code situation and simply clearing the code won't do anything here.

Any thoughts or similar expierence out there?

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Try either leaving the battery unhooked for a while or pull the ecm B fuse for like 15 minutes to reset the ecm.. start the truck up and let it idle for a bit til it's warmed up. Shut it off then start her up and take her for a 30 minute drive and see if the error code comes back.. this process if I remember right is normally how the ecm relearns after being reset.

also here's some info on that error code if you do still have it

http://www.syty.org/old/d&e-code42.html

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Thanks for that Ryan! I searched a long time for something like that last night to no avail.

I noticed on DM last night that in the boxes on the upper right part of the screen. The ones telling you what is on and off. A/C clutch is one of the boxes. The very top right one says EST. That box was yellow the entire time. The only thing else that was showing yellow were the two bigger EGR boxes at cruise.

I don't know if the yellow EST box was showing a problem or if it was just saying that it was working. I saw timing go as high 30 last night under light cruise. Timing was moving around quite a bit as I would expect. My understanding of all this is that if there truly was an EST problem timing would be locked at zero(base timing). Correct?

So the big question for me is, if the computer stores a code but that is later corrected, does datamaster normally do what it is doing to me now? Or does the constant dinging mean that it still sees something wrong?

I left the batter unhooked all night long last night. I'll get it out for a test drive as instructed by Ryan to see what it does.

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

I noticed on DM last night that in the boxes on the upper right part of the screen. The ones telling you what is on and off. A/C clutch is one of the boxes. The very top right one says EST. That box was yellow the entire time. The only thing else that was showing yellow were the two bigger EGR boxes at cruise

Mine stays yellow the whole time as well... It's normal it just means that the ECM is now controlling it instead of the igntion module (which is concidered bypass mode)

Also if you double-click on the box itself it'll tell you a small bit more of info about that field incase you weren't aware. In this case it'll say Bypass mode = 1 which is yellow I think.

I saw timing go as high 30 last night under light cruise. Timing was moving around quite a bit as I would expect. My understanding of all this is that if there truly was an EST problem timing would be locked at zero(base timing). Correct?

I don't know much about this type of thing but I would think that if there was a problem then it wouldn't advance as much as 30 or so like it normally would but like I said I don't know much in this area maybe someone else can chime in

So the big question for me is, if the computer stores a code but that is later corrected, does datamaster normally do what it is doing to me now? Or does the constant dinging mean that it still sees something wrong?

I left the batter unhooked all night long last night. I'll get it out for a test drive as instructed by Ryan to see what it does.

Datamaster only see's what the ecm currently has stored.. so if you did in fact fix the issue but didn't reset the ecm it'll still have that error stored which will result in Datamaster pinging at you saying you have this error.. now if you fix the issue and reset the ecm by either pulling the ecm b fuse for 15 minutes or pulling the battery wires for a little bit and datamaster pings at you again then you have a new error or the same one came back which means you didn't fix the issue and still have work ahead of you

 

[pinellas50]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Thank you sir. That is what I needed to know.

Last night I did find that the 4 wire connector to the distributor looked like it wasn't pushed in all the way. I rectified that. I cleaned the contacts on the computer as well. No CEL after that.

The ecm has been reset. Let's see what it does this weekend.

Thanks again.

 

[Tooky]

Re: Tuning for L35 heads.

Wow, you swapped the stock heads back on? That's a ton of work.. So - does it run any different with the stock heads? Did you notice any significant difference in power vs. the L35s? Are your spark plugs still getting black crusty crap?