Hi-torque mini starter
- Thread starter Merk
- Start date
Syclone#892
Member
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
What kind of hi torque starter? If its the gm style then I would recommend exchanging it for another.
I can honestly say I have only once in my short life put a shim on a starter. My guess is there is something wrong with the starter itself.
Also I would only go with 1 or 2 shims the farther you keep moving the starter from the block I worry about getting a good ground especially with all the starter problems these trucks have I wouldnt want to add to the possible causes.
Good luck and hope you get it worked out.
What kind of hi torque starter? If its the gm style then I would recommend exchanging it for another.
I can honestly say I have only once in my short life put a shim on a starter. My guess is there is something wrong with the starter itself.
Also I would only go with 1 or 2 shims the farther you keep moving the starter from the block I worry about getting a good ground especially with all the starter problems these trucks have I wouldnt want to add to the possible causes.
Good luck and hope you get it worked out.
Flyin Ryan
hated cuz he drives fords
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
Just removed my starter from the syclone the past weekend.. it turns out it was the factory stocker from 91! which had one shim in there... was going to go with a mini starter but funds are tight so I went with the stock replacement from autozone for $86 bucks and a lifetime warrenty. Instructions that came with it said to use shims as needed but never use more then three shims.
Just removed my starter from the syclone the past weekend.. it turns out it was the factory stocker from 91! which had one shim in there... was going to go with a mini starter but funds are tight so I went with the stock replacement from autozone for $86 bucks and a lifetime warrenty. Instructions that came with it said to use shims as needed but never use more then three shims.
Merk
Donating Member
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
Yeah, I was thinking someone else had this issue with the HTM starter that would chime in, slap me, call me a dummy and point me in the right direction.
There are shims in the box and the HTM is for a 90-deg V6 :dunno:
..pancakes suggested to get more shims, but Im thinkin I shouldnt have to
Beavis said:I don't think there is any number of too many, but I was always under the impresion that put in as many as it takes. Or get or makemyclone
Yeah, I was thinking someone else had this issue with the HTM starter that would chime in, slap me, call me a dummy and point me in the right direction.
There are shims in the box and the HTM is for a 90-deg V6 :dunno:
..pancakes suggested to get more shims, but Im thinkin I shouldnt have to
ed hess
race or get outta the way
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
as i recall full shims move it further away.
half shims using only the outermost bolt move it closer.
I had to use 2 half shims on the outer side to move mine when i went to the bowtie block.
took me awhile to figure out using the half shims to quiet the starter.
hth
ed
Merk said:
as i recall full shims move it further away.
half shims using only the outermost bolt move it closer.
I had to use 2 half shims on the outer side to move mine when i went to the bowtie block.
took me awhile to figure out using the half shims to quiet the starter.
hth
ed
ed hess
race or get outta the way
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
follow this :
Shimming Procedures
UNLIKE FORD AND CHRYSLER which have a fixed starter drive gear to flywheel clearance, GM starters have an ADJUSTABLE CLEARANCE.
IMPORTANT
Most of the causes of premature starter failure of GM pad-mounted starters are a result of improper shimming, regardless of whether the old starter had shims or not, you you must inspect the clearance of this new unit as it may or may not require shimming.
BEFORE INSTALLATION:
You must understand the need for proper starter pinion to flywheel clearance!
This "CLEARANCE" is critical to avoid damage to: Flywheel, Starter Drive, Battery
WHY SHIMMING VARIES?
1. Mounting pad tolerances and hole locations vary from block to block, this moves the starter drive gear away from the flywheel varying distances.
2. The mounting pad on the engine block dimensions vary. This also moves the starter drive gear away from the flywheel varying distances.
STEP 1: INSPECTION
Remove lower flywheel housing cover and examine the entire flywheel for visual problems: worn, chipped or broken teeth; bent flywheel and/or incorrectly cut teeth.
STEP 2: CHECKING CLEARANCE
Insert a screwdriver behind the starter drive. Move starter drive assembly out toward flywheel so that the starter pinion and ring gear teeth mesh.
STEP 3: MEASURING CLEARANCE
Center the pinion tooth. Check clearance (looking for .025" - .060"). A convenient plug gauge is a common paper clip, which typically mikes out at about .035". Important - Check at least 3 ring gear locations 120° apart for proper clearance. Shim as required at minimum clearance location. After measuring clearance, push starter drive back into original position. Step 4: Proper Shimming
To Increase Clearance: Use entire shim across both holes. .015" shim increases clearance approx. .0075". This moves the starter down and out, away from the flywheel (use no more than 6 shims).
To Decrease Clearance: Use 1/2 shim only on the outer mounting bolt hole from oil pan. This moves the starter in and toward the flywheel. .015" shim decreases clearance approx. .010".
[size=-1]Copyright ®1998 CVR Clay Valley Mfg. Inc.[/size]
follow this :
Shimming Procedures
UNLIKE FORD AND CHRYSLER which have a fixed starter drive gear to flywheel clearance, GM starters have an ADJUSTABLE CLEARANCE.
IMPORTANT
Most of the causes of premature starter failure of GM pad-mounted starters are a result of improper shimming, regardless of whether the old starter had shims or not, you you must inspect the clearance of this new unit as it may or may not require shimming.
BEFORE INSTALLATION:
You must understand the need for proper starter pinion to flywheel clearance!
This "CLEARANCE" is critical to avoid damage to: Flywheel, Starter Drive, Battery
WHY SHIMMING VARIES?
1. Mounting pad tolerances and hole locations vary from block to block, this moves the starter drive gear away from the flywheel varying distances.
2. The mounting pad on the engine block dimensions vary. This also moves the starter drive gear away from the flywheel varying distances.
STEP 1: INSPECTION
Remove lower flywheel housing cover and examine the entire flywheel for visual problems: worn, chipped or broken teeth; bent flywheel and/or incorrectly cut teeth.
STEP 2: CHECKING CLEARANCE
Insert a screwdriver behind the starter drive. Move starter drive assembly out toward flywheel so that the starter pinion and ring gear teeth mesh.
STEP 3: MEASURING CLEARANCE
Center the pinion tooth. Check clearance (looking for .025" - .060"). A convenient plug gauge is a common paper clip, which typically mikes out at about .035". Important - Check at least 3 ring gear locations 120° apart for proper clearance. Shim as required at minimum clearance location. After measuring clearance, push starter drive back into original position. Step 4: Proper Shimming
To Increase Clearance: Use entire shim across both holes. .015" shim increases clearance approx. .0075". This moves the starter down and out, away from the flywheel (use no more than 6 shims).
To Decrease Clearance: Use 1/2 shim only on the outer mounting bolt hole from oil pan. This moves the starter in and toward the flywheel. .015" shim decreases clearance approx. .010".
[size=-1]Copyright ®1998 CVR Clay Valley Mfg. Inc.[/size]
4C FED
Absolutum Dominium
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
I had a problem with my CVR starter. The starter gear sat to close to the flexplate ring gear so that it was almost engaged when the starter was idle. I had to make a 1/8" spacer to go between the starter & it's mounting block to push the starter forward towards the front of the engine.
Here's a pic.
I had a problem with my CVR starter. The starter gear sat to close to the flexplate ring gear so that it was almost engaged when the starter was idle. I had to make a 1/8" spacer to go between the starter & it's mounting block to push the starter forward towards the front of the engine.
Here's a pic.
QWERTYphoon
Motley Driver Award 2009
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
My CVR Starter went in without any shims. Just had to re-clock it. I pulled my Bell housing off, installed the starter, used a flat head screw driver to pull the starter gear into the fly wheel and visually checked clearance. Once I was sure I had clearance I started the truck and it worked fine. If your old starter came out with out shims I would start there or use the same shims that came out.
My CVR Starter went in without any shims. Just had to re-clock it. I pulled my Bell housing off, installed the starter, used a flat head screw driver to pull the starter gear into the fly wheel and visually checked clearance. Once I was sure I had clearance I started the truck and it worked fine. If your old starter came out with out shims I would start there or use the same shims that came out.
Merk
Donating Member
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
Thanks for the pic. I'm assuming that's how it is now (fixed) pictured.
4C FED said:I had a problem with my CVR starter. The starter gear sat to close to the flexplate ring gear so that it was almost engaged when the starter was idle. I had to make a 1/8" spacer to go between the starter & it's mounting block to push the starter forward towards the front of the engine.
Here's a pic.
Thanks for the pic. I'm assuming that's how it is now (fixed) pictured.
Merk
Donating Member
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
OK.
Well today, the typhoon has won.
Put a shim between the starter and the mounting plate to push it out. That revealed little to no change. I have almost no gap between the flexplate and the starter gear. Talk about frustration.
At this point I would have swallowed my pride and elected to pay a shop (gasp!) just to have it finished.
I've rebuilt this truck from the ground up by myself, by hand and this is by far the most frustrating thing on this truck. Yes, even worse than the heater core.
Tomorrow will be a new day. I might even go get a cheap-ass starter and save this little diddy for when my new motor is ready for install.
OK.
Well today, the typhoon has won.
Put a shim between the starter and the mounting plate to push it out. That revealed little to no change. I have almost no gap between the flexplate and the starter gear. Talk about frustration.
At this point I would have swallowed my pride and elected to pay a shop (gasp!) just to have it finished.
I've rebuilt this truck from the ground up by myself, by hand and this is by far the most frustrating thing on this truck. Yes, even worse than the heater core.
Tomorrow will be a new day. I might even go get a cheap-ass starter and save this little diddy for when my new motor is ready for install.
Last edited:
Merk
Donating Member
Re: Hi-torque mini starter
Ok, got it finished. All good now.
Anyone going to use the GM Starter (P/N 12361146) will need to purchase an additional shim kit. Shim kits are available at the various auto parts stores (I used Murray's Discount Auto) All clearances will vary from block to block, as Ed Hess stated so you may not need to. In my application, the starter gear just needed more clearance from the flex plate. The shims included in GM's HTM starter did not give the clearance I needed. Again, this may vary for your application.
Problem was, I wasn't able to see exactly how much clearance I had, so I had nothing to gauge by. Also, double check your shims --I had one shim not seated correctly. This caused it to shift when the starter bolts were torqued to spec. The shim essentially began rubbing against the flex plate.
The majority of folks who posted here were using the CVR Protorque, which has a different starter gear from the GM unit.
Ok, got it finished. All good now.
Anyone going to use the GM Starter (P/N 12361146) will need to purchase an additional shim kit. Shim kits are available at the various auto parts stores (I used Murray's Discount Auto) All clearances will vary from block to block, as Ed Hess stated so you may not need to. In my application, the starter gear just needed more clearance from the flex plate. The shims included in GM's HTM starter did not give the clearance I needed. Again, this may vary for your application.
Problem was, I wasn't able to see exactly how much clearance I had, so I had nothing to gauge by. Also, double check your shims --I had one shim not seated correctly. This caused it to shift when the starter bolts were torqued to spec. The shim essentially began rubbing against the flex plate.
The majority of folks who posted here were using the CVR Protorque, which has a different starter gear from the GM unit.