Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
- Thread starter JAY
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sytyguy
Moderated User
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
Remember that you can't have the lug nut covers on while racing and to bump up your tire pressure to prevent side rolling. Our trucks like to understeer, but you can throttle on a bit sooner than most. So, hit a late apex just right and you'll be loving life.
Otherwise, be safe and have fun.
Hood
Remember that you can't have the lug nut covers on while racing and to bump up your tire pressure to prevent side rolling. Our trucks like to understeer, but you can throttle on a bit sooner than most. So, hit a late apex just right and you'll be loving life.
Otherwise, be safe and have fun.
Hood
Zewerr
ToeJam is a Poindexter
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
Autocrossing a Sy/Ty is like autocrossing anything else, they just lean more! I've autocrossed mine a few times. My arms can barely keep up with the sloppy pick'em up steering box. I've been able to pull out some fairly decent times though. I might even autocross it alittle bit this Memorial Day weekend. I just thow it into 2nd, and have at it!
Autocrossing a Sy/Ty is like autocrossing anything else, they just lean more! I've autocrossed mine a few times. My arms can barely keep up with the sloppy pick'em up steering box. I've been able to pull out some fairly decent times though. I might even autocross it alittle bit this Memorial Day weekend. I just thow it into 2nd, and have at it!
Zewerr
ToeJam is a Poindexter
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
I've had a few times where I'd almost top it out in 2nd, but I've have yet to hit the limiter on an autocross course, but it would happen eventually if I raced it enough. Whatever you can do to get as much lean out of the truck in the corners would be the best thing to do for it. I've got a beltech rear swaybar, and poly-thane bushings on the front stock swaybar and also poly control arm bushings with koni shocks set to their highest settings and my truck still leans like crazy, seen here:
http://216.240.155.171/dfireweb/smeg/dscf5308.jpg
http://216.240.155.171/dfireweb/smeg/img_2295.jpg
With it leaning so much, it makes the truck a huge hassle trying to go through a slalom, cause there's always a split second from where you turn the wheel, to where the truck actually starts turning. For tire pressures, I run about 34-35 psi on my race tires (Yokohama A-008R's, yeah they're crazy old, but free), and about 37-38 on my street tires (Eagle F1 GS-D3's). Usually if your running a cheaper, softer sidewall tire, you'd have to run even more pressure to keep them from flexing too much. A quicker ratio gearbox never hurts. I have an AGR 14:1 gearbox, and it seemed to help dramatically, but still has kinda a semi truck feel, just not as much.
I've had a few times where I'd almost top it out in 2nd, but I've have yet to hit the limiter on an autocross course, but it would happen eventually if I raced it enough. Whatever you can do to get as much lean out of the truck in the corners would be the best thing to do for it. I've got a beltech rear swaybar, and poly-thane bushings on the front stock swaybar and also poly control arm bushings with koni shocks set to their highest settings and my truck still leans like crazy, seen here:
http://216.240.155.171/dfireweb/smeg/dscf5308.jpg
http://216.240.155.171/dfireweb/smeg/img_2295.jpg
With it leaning so much, it makes the truck a huge hassle trying to go through a slalom, cause there's always a split second from where you turn the wheel, to where the truck actually starts turning. For tire pressures, I run about 34-35 psi on my race tires (Yokohama A-008R's, yeah they're crazy old, but free), and about 37-38 on my street tires (Eagle F1 GS-D3's). Usually if your running a cheaper, softer sidewall tire, you'd have to run even more pressure to keep them from flexing too much. A quicker ratio gearbox never hurts. I have an AGR 14:1 gearbox, and it seemed to help dramatically, but still has kinda a semi truck feel, just not as much.
live1053rulz
Nor Cal SyTy
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
If you have a rear swaybar, they help out a lot, but they do like to pick up the inside rear tire when you have them. So to get rid of that deal, I got some 400# flexaforms to drop the rear bar. Sticky tires will help a lot. Make sure you do all/most of your breaking before the turn, and accelerate going coming out of the turn. Hit your apexes just right and have a blast. Oh, and walk and memorize the course before you run. Knowing the course will help you tremendously.
If you have a rear swaybar, they help out a lot, but they do like to pick up the inside rear tire when you have them. So to get rid of that deal, I got some 400# flexaforms to drop the rear bar. Sticky tires will help a lot. Make sure you do all/most of your breaking before the turn, and accelerate going coming out of the turn. Hit your apexes just right and have a blast. Oh, and walk and memorize the course before you run. Knowing the course will help you tremendously.
live1053rulz
Nor Cal SyTy
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
The A/A should be great to keep heat soak out a bit. You don't really need a big turbo or anything, you don't have the need or the ability to make big boost and huuuge power. You'd want quick spool up and your suspension all dialed in. Ohh, slicks help tremendously too.
The A/A should be great to keep heat soak out a bit. You don't really need a big turbo or anything, you don't have the need or the ability to make big boost and huuuge power. You'd want quick spool up and your suspension all dialed in. Ohh, slicks help tremendously too.
sytyguy
Moderated User
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
I've got:
- 60-1/12cm2 Hybrid Turbo
- 50#ers
- 412 Cam
- Single Muff Exhaust
- My Chip
- 2800 Stall TC
- Meth Injection
- Large Upper IC with fans and Jabsco
- Victoracer V700s on spare 16x8 wheels
- Rear Sway Bar
Truck is quick spooling and very predictable, but I'll be putting the coilover front suspension back on this summer and hope to set some reasonably quick times in the fall. The slicks make a HUGE difference (in handling and in confidence - believing your truck can handle the speeds your throw at it in a corner means a lot) over street tires, although I would recommend getting accomodated with the truck on the course with street tires first (if your a novice) before getting slicks (you can audibly hear street tires at the limit before they give up traction, versus slicks "biting your head off" when pushed too hard.)
I haven't been doing a huge amount of LF braking (my tranny is aging and the brakes are undersized & can use all the cool down from late braking I can give them), but power still comes on really well when throttling on out of an apex (I can thank my smaller ex. housing for that.)
Hood
I've got:
- 60-1/12cm2 Hybrid Turbo
- 50#ers
- 412 Cam
- Single Muff Exhaust
- My Chip
- 2800 Stall TC
- Meth Injection
- Large Upper IC with fans and Jabsco
- Victoracer V700s on spare 16x8 wheels
- Rear Sway Bar
Truck is quick spooling and very predictable, but I'll be putting the coilover front suspension back on this summer and hope to set some reasonably quick times in the fall. The slicks make a HUGE difference (in handling and in confidence - believing your truck can handle the speeds your throw at it in a corner means a lot) over street tires, although I would recommend getting accomodated with the truck on the course with street tires first (if your a novice) before getting slicks (you can audibly hear street tires at the limit before they give up traction, versus slicks "biting your head off" when pushed too hard.)
I haven't been doing a huge amount of LF braking (my tranny is aging and the brakes are undersized & can use all the cool down from late braking I can give them), but power still comes on really well when throttling on out of an apex (I can thank my smaller ex. housing for that.)
Hood
live1053rulz
Nor Cal SyTy
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
Oh, I do left foot brake. It's something most people probably have to get used to. With the auto, I find it really easy. It's when I get in my Dads racecar having to shift and all that left foot braking can become confusing. You can defeinitely hear the street tires howel when they're unhappy. Slicks are hard to break loose if you drive the car properly. They help tons. I'm doing front coilovers, brakes, and rear composite leafs with a 400# rate so I can get rid of my rear swaybar, or at least get a smaller one. That rear bar is great, but would be better if it didn't cause the truck to lift up the inside rear tire. I'll let you all know how things work out, I'm excited to see.
Oh, I do left foot brake. It's something most people probably have to get used to. With the auto, I find it really easy. It's when I get in my Dads racecar having to shift and all that left foot braking can become confusing. You can defeinitely hear the street tires howel when they're unhappy. Slicks are hard to break loose if you drive the car properly. They help tons. I'm doing front coilovers, brakes, and rear composite leafs with a 400# rate so I can get rid of my rear swaybar, or at least get a smaller one. That rear bar is great, but would be better if it didn't cause the truck to lift up the inside rear tire. I'll let you all know how things work out, I'm excited to see.
jbone
Member
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
so how do you know when youve hit the limit of your truck? How easy are these things to roll over? (Thats my greatest fear). It feels like it really wants to roll even when Im not going that fast around turns on the street. I have a fear of rolling after I did it in my blazer around a turn once. I have read that these trucks can go a lot further than they feel like they can. Do the tires actually loose traction and cause you to slide out, or do the tires grip so well w/ the awd the only time you know youve gone too far is when the truck is on its roof?
so how do you know when youve hit the limit of your truck? How easy are these things to roll over? (Thats my greatest fear). It feels like it really wants to roll even when Im not going that fast around turns on the street. I have a fear of rolling after I did it in my blazer around a turn once. I have read that these trucks can go a lot further than they feel like they can. Do the tires actually loose traction and cause you to slide out, or do the tires grip so well w/ the awd the only time you know youve gone too far is when the truck is on its roof?
Zewerr
ToeJam is a Poindexter
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
To answer your question on what engine builds we run, I run bone stock. Big turbo's spool up later and harder, which is never good for autocrossing. A stock engine is way more than enough power to motor a syty down an autocross course. Big power gains won't really help you like a beefed up suspension will.
And for what you just asked, My truck always pushed when I raced it and never ever got sideways even a bit. This is autocrossing and road racing. When it pushes, it should never roll over. When I autocrossed my truck a few weeks ago, I rotated my race tires, and that caused the truck to loosen up alittle, and I ended up spinning it on my last run. The spin initiated at about 50 mph, and I spun it to the left with a 200 lb passenger sitting next to me. It still never felt like it even came close to rolling over. But I'm not really sure what a truck with stock suspension would feel like. I'm sure it actually is possible, but very, very hard to do. I think the only way would be if you spun it, and clipped a pothole, speed bump, curb, course worker, or rough dirt off the track.
To answer your question on what engine builds we run, I run bone stock. Big turbo's spool up later and harder, which is never good for autocrossing. A stock engine is way more than enough power to motor a syty down an autocross course. Big power gains won't really help you like a beefed up suspension will.
And for what you just asked, My truck always pushed when I raced it and never ever got sideways even a bit. This is autocrossing and road racing. When it pushes, it should never roll over. When I autocrossed my truck a few weeks ago, I rotated my race tires, and that caused the truck to loosen up alittle, and I ended up spinning it on my last run. The spin initiated at about 50 mph, and I spun it to the left with a 200 lb passenger sitting next to me. It still never felt like it even came close to rolling over. But I'm not really sure what a truck with stock suspension would feel like. I'm sure it actually is possible, but very, very hard to do. I think the only way would be if you spun it, and clipped a pothole, speed bump, curb, course worker, or rough dirt off the track.
jbone
Member
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
I wont be going with a turbo any larger than a PTE44. Im not getting a bigger turbo for the purpose of autocrossing, I just wanted to see what was the biggest that people went with. Im trying to learn all about driving (racing) and theres a lot of sh!t to learn but I cant wait to do it. Im now just having trouble finding any clubs around me that allow suv/trucks to do it. Another question: How does a front swaybar affect handling? i.e. oversteer or understeer and why?
I wont be going with a turbo any larger than a PTE44. Im not getting a bigger turbo for the purpose of autocrossing, I just wanted to see what was the biggest that people went with. Im trying to learn all about driving (racing) and theres a lot of sh!t to learn but I cant wait to do it. Im now just having trouble finding any clubs around me that allow suv/trucks to do it. Another question: How does a front swaybar affect handling? i.e. oversteer or understeer and why?
Zewerr
ToeJam is a Poindexter
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
Any SCCA region should let you race. Syclones and Typhoons are classified as F Stock in the SCCA rule book.
A bigger front swaybar should improve your turn in reaction, which is the biggest difficulty I'm facing right now when I race my truck. You have to turn the wheel early, wait for the truck to lean, and then it starts turning. This is a serious PITA when your trying to go your fastest through a slolam. My arms can barely keep up. I'm not really sure how it will effect the balance of the truck. I'm leaning toward alittle more oversteer, as I think the front end will grip better.
Any SCCA region should let you race. Syclones and Typhoons are classified as F Stock in the SCCA rule book.
A bigger front swaybar should improve your turn in reaction, which is the biggest difficulty I'm facing right now when I race my truck. You have to turn the wheel early, wait for the truck to lean, and then it starts turning. This is a serious PITA when your trying to go your fastest through a slolam. My arms can barely keep up. I'm not really sure how it will effect the balance of the truck. I'm leaning toward alittle more oversteer, as I think the front end will grip better.
myclone
Donating Member
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
I agree that unless you hit something during a sideways action a sy isnt as easy to roll as it feels like (dunno bout you ty guys but Id suspect theyre a little easier to get one on its lid).
Long story short I raced one of those dakota RT thingys down the mtn not far from my house after he starting riding my ass (guess he saw me fooling around with the boost control settings and wanted some :shrug: ). I hit a sharp right hand curve carrying way WAY too much speed and the rear started to come around. It came around far enough I honestly thought I was gonna tag the hill side but I counter steered and gave it just a little throttle which straightened it up.
Basically I was almost completely sideways sliding to the left, I weigh 285lbs and driving so needless to say I was on the left, and the truck kept the rubber side down. I went straight home and changed into clean shorts afterwords.
Zewerr said:
I agree that unless you hit something during a sideways action a sy isnt as easy to roll as it feels like (dunno bout you ty guys but Id suspect theyre a little easier to get one on its lid).
Long story short I raced one of those dakota RT thingys down the mtn not far from my house after he starting riding my ass (guess he saw me fooling around with the boost control settings and wanted some :shrug: ). I hit a sharp right hand curve carrying way WAY too much speed and the rear started to come around. It came around far enough I honestly thought I was gonna tag the hill side but I counter steered and gave it just a little throttle which straightened it up.
Basically I was almost completely sideways sliding to the left, I weigh 285lbs and driving so needless to say I was on the left, and the truck kept the rubber side down. I went straight home and changed into clean shorts afterwords.
jbone
Member
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
So when it comes to the suspension, I dont have the money for coilovers and probably wont for quite a while, have any of you guys rebuilt the stock suspension with all new parts and maybe poly-bushings and had any success while autocrossing? I am planning on lowering the front 1-2 inches with the torsion bars.
So when it comes to the suspension, I dont have the money for coilovers and probably wont for quite a while, have any of you guys rebuilt the stock suspension with all new parts and maybe poly-bushings and had any success while autocrossing? I am planning on lowering the front 1-2 inches with the torsion bars.
Last edited:
brock1949
Its alive!!!
Re: Any autocross suspension tricks/advice?
I recently road raced at gingerman road coarse in MI with my 94 s10. At the time i had a supercharger with meth 5psi on a 260ahr, full rollers, 00 vortecs, tubular headers, and that was plenty of power.
Now for suspension, (i know some of this isn't options for you guys)
Front:
1.33" sway bar, energy poly link
belltech drop spindle
belltech drop coils (total drop 3" between both)
C5 calipers Hawk HPS pads, LS1 12x1.25 rotors
Belltech nitro drop shocks
Back
8.5 Rear axle 3.42 posi
11.5" disc on aluminum LS1 style calipers, Hawk HTS pads
belltech 1" sway bar
Lakewood traction bars
Belltech drop leafs (no blocks)
Belltech Nitro shocks
Between all of this i was able to SCHOOL a 94 z28 on the track and i was able to keep within 5-6 car lenghts behind a freinds 03 viper. I could easily wait until the last braking mark and come down from 80-100 to 40-50 in a matter of 10-20 ft. I had alot of people really looking into my truck that weekend but i was extreemly rough on the truck and the engine. I blew 3 belts in 4 track sessions so i quit and started building the forged Ty motor with a turbo instead.
But with that setup i could LEAN into the truck and really make her work, ever after i would brake the tires loose in a corner it would quickly hook again even if i was leaning harder on it making it worse. I had Kumoh supra 712's 245/50/R16's.
Oh on a side note they made me pull of my bolted on center caps.. after trying to tighten all my plastic lug nut covers.. lol
On a side note a freind of mine rents out gingerman twice a year and you can get in for a non compeditive 8-10hr day of track time for like 100 bucks.. i'll let you guys know when it comes up again probably this fall he'll rent it again.
I recently road raced at gingerman road coarse in MI with my 94 s10. At the time i had a supercharger with meth 5psi on a 260ahr, full rollers, 00 vortecs, tubular headers, and that was plenty of power.
Now for suspension, (i know some of this isn't options for you guys)
Front:
1.33" sway bar, energy poly link
belltech drop spindle
belltech drop coils (total drop 3" between both)
C5 calipers Hawk HPS pads, LS1 12x1.25 rotors
Belltech nitro drop shocks
Back
8.5 Rear axle 3.42 posi
11.5" disc on aluminum LS1 style calipers, Hawk HTS pads
belltech 1" sway bar
Lakewood traction bars
Belltech drop leafs (no blocks)
Belltech Nitro shocks
Between all of this i was able to SCHOOL a 94 z28 on the track and i was able to keep within 5-6 car lenghts behind a freinds 03 viper. I could easily wait until the last braking mark and come down from 80-100 to 40-50 in a matter of 10-20 ft. I had alot of people really looking into my truck that weekend but i was extreemly rough on the truck and the engine. I blew 3 belts in 4 track sessions so i quit and started building the forged Ty motor with a turbo instead.
But with that setup i could LEAN into the truck and really make her work, ever after i would brake the tires loose in a corner it would quickly hook again even if i was leaning harder on it making it worse. I had Kumoh supra 712's 245/50/R16's.
Oh on a side note they made me pull of my bolted on center caps.. after trying to tighten all my plastic lug nut covers.. lol
On a side note a freind of mine rents out gingerman twice a year and you can get in for a non compeditive 8-10hr day of track time for like 100 bucks.. i'll let you guys know when it comes up again probably this fall he'll rent it again.