air fuel meter
- Thread starter midospike
- Start date
Lynn D. Brown
New member
ms - I've got the Autometer AF ratio guage in the Phantom series to match the rest of my guages. They seem to offer them in a number of their guage series.
U can call to get one of their catalogs at 815-895-8141, Fax - 6786
Not installed yet.
U can call to get one of their catalogs at 815-895-8141, Fax - 6786
Not installed yet.
Lynn D. Brown
New member
A/F guages
A/F guages
Admittedly, Daron, there's no accuracy to the number shown on these guages, but it does show whether the O2 sensor is cycling - i.e. working.
In fact, I guess there R no numbers on the gauge anyway - I suppose 4 that reason..
A/F guages
Admittedly, Daron, there's no accuracy to the number shown on these guages, but it does show whether the O2 sensor is cycling - i.e. working.
In fact, I guess there R no numbers on the gauge anyway - I suppose 4 that reason..
ed hess
race or get outta the way
i have the autometer and the k&n gauge.
The kn unit has numbers which is why i installed this.
the autometer i still have if someone wants it? make me an offer!
its better than nothing.
it will at least tell you when the o2 sensor is heated up as it begins crosscounting.
of course its little use to me now since i am using an open loop chip.
ed
The kn unit has numbers which is why i installed this.
the autometer i still have if someone wants it? make me an offer!
its better than nothing.
it will at least tell you when the o2 sensor is heated up as it begins crosscounting.
of course its little use to me now since i am using an open loop chip.
ed
rockvillespeed
Member
scoff all you want - the a/f gauges can save your motor.
no, i'd not do a final tune using one - but u can get fairly close on driveability, and it WILL tell you if u r grossly off base under power.
last, if u see red while in boost - great visual warning something is very wrong.
i recpommend them highly for these reasons, and run one in all my hi-perf vehicles, including my carbureted v8 s10, where it was a fantastic tuning aid.
no, i'd not do a final tune using one - but u can get fairly close on driveability, and it WILL tell you if u r grossly off base under power.
last, if u see red while in boost - great visual warning something is very wrong.
i recpommend them highly for these reasons, and run one in all my hi-perf vehicles, including my carbureted v8 s10, where it was a fantastic tuning aid.
Daron
Active member
Unfortunately they cannot measure ratio's outside of a narrow window, not conjecture, but fact. Ignoring what that means is up to you...
Monitoring the stock knock sensor via a scantool is a much better way to save your motor and a much better way to spend your money. Making your own wideband is not much more cash than the light show meter and actually they work.
Autometer even admits they are worthless:
http://www.autometer.com/hp/techtips/air_fuel/air_fuel.html
"The oxygen sensor is very accurate at indicating a stoichiometric A/F ratio. It is also very accurate at indicating an A/F ratio that is richer or leaner than stoichiometric. However it can not indicate what exactly the A/F ratio is in the rich and lean areas due to the fact that the oxygen sensor output changes with the oxygen sensor temperature and wear. As the sensor temperature increases, the voltage output will decrease for a given A/F ratio in the rich area, and increase in the lean area as shown on the graph."
FWIW, stoichiometric A/F ratio is not the A/F ratio you should be using to tune for best power.
Monitoring the stock knock sensor via a scantool is a much better way to save your motor and a much better way to spend your money. Making your own wideband is not much more cash than the light show meter and actually they work.
Autometer even admits they are worthless:
http://www.autometer.com/hp/techtips/air_fuel/air_fuel.html
"The oxygen sensor is very accurate at indicating a stoichiometric A/F ratio. It is also very accurate at indicating an A/F ratio that is richer or leaner than stoichiometric. However it can not indicate what exactly the A/F ratio is in the rich and lean areas due to the fact that the oxygen sensor output changes with the oxygen sensor temperature and wear. As the sensor temperature increases, the voltage output will decrease for a given A/F ratio in the rich area, and increase in the lean area as shown on the graph."
FWIW, stoichiometric A/F ratio is not the A/F ratio you should be using to tune for best power.
bdubb
I am teh kingpin!
agree'd with daron, complete waste of cash. just a light show, thats it..
want the REAL thing, get this.
http://www.fjoinc.com/automotive/
and with the LED readout, you will have a real o2 air/fuel gauge...
want the REAL thing, get this.
http://www.fjoinc.com/automotive/
and with the LED readout, you will have a real o2 air/fuel gauge...
rockvillespeed
Member
i dispute that not - they are WAY inaccurate 1 point either side of stoich.
but i also stand by what i said.
and a laptop?
gimme a break - if you're watching your pc screen while driving, i sure hope u dont drive in my state - and if i spotted u drving down the road face in screen, i'd call the cops on you for being so fucking dumb.
and far as watching a recorded run?
sure, watch the run in which you detonated the motor to pieces - it'll be fun!!
paying attention to that sad little red LED woulda not been "accurate" whilst all that detonation was a-happening, jethro.....
just one more safeguard for us....half my customers literally don't even knwo what detonation sounds like....
but what do i know; i only own a speedshop and do this all day long.
but i also stand by what i said.
and a laptop?
gimme a break - if you're watching your pc screen while driving, i sure hope u dont drive in my state - and if i spotted u drving down the road face in screen, i'd call the cops on you for being so fucking dumb.
and far as watching a recorded run?
sure, watch the run in which you detonated the motor to pieces - it'll be fun!!
paying attention to that sad little red LED woulda not been "accurate" whilst all that detonation was a-happening, jethro.....
just one more safeguard for us....half my customers literally don't even knwo what detonation sounds like....
but what do i know; i only own a speedshop and do this all day long.
GEN3Typhoon
New member
There is another solution.. the one that I use.
You tune the vehicle with the wideband... also install a EGT gage... when you are tuning you can see for example that 1200F is 12.0:1, or something like that... when you are making a pass... of you are seeing 1300... you are leaner than normal....
To rockville speeds point.. I have used ones of these "light shows" for many years on my corvette when running NOS.. never had a problem, I used it to tune WOT... when I was young and dumb and could not afford a wide band.... :lol:
NOW! BACK TO YOUR CORNERS!!!!!
You tune the vehicle with the wideband... also install a EGT gage... when you are tuning you can see for example that 1200F is 12.0:1, or something like that... when you are making a pass... of you are seeing 1300... you are leaner than normal....
To rockville speeds point.. I have used ones of these "light shows" for many years on my corvette when running NOS.. never had a problem, I used it to tune WOT... when I was young and dumb and could not afford a wide band.... :lol:
NOW! BACK TO YOUR CORNERS!!!!!
If all you want is something that is going to tell you when you are approaching the thermal limits of your engines internals.....get an EGT gauge. Temps are going to vary , as not all engines are going to be happy running at a specific temp. Do a search on EGT, they have been discussed here before.
If you want something to tell you what your actual AFR is, for tuning... get a wideband 02 sensor.
Any monitoring of the stock 02, with that LED AFR guage, is a waste of time.
If you want something to tell you what your actual AFR is, for tuning... get a wideband 02 sensor.
Any monitoring of the stock 02, with that LED AFR guage, is a waste of time.
rockvillespeed
Member
egt's:
a specific temperature means that - a temperature.
unlike a wideband, hitting x degrees doesnt mean u r too lean/rich whatever - it's a reference point.
i run both in my blower mustang.
as mentioned above, you need to corellate certain egt to certain a/f ratio so u know wheere you are.
any mention of certain temps being "right"/"wrong" are so much a generalization as to be near worthless.
if u go egt use a digital one with memory - the analogs are too slow.
i'd also like to generally apologize for the fact that i just cant type well.
a specific temperature means that - a temperature.
unlike a wideband, hitting x degrees doesnt mean u r too lean/rich whatever - it's a reference point.
i run both in my blower mustang.
as mentioned above, you need to corellate certain egt to certain a/f ratio so u know wheere you are.
any mention of certain temps being "right"/"wrong" are so much a generalization as to be near worthless.
if u go egt use a digital one with memory - the analogs are too slow.
i'd also like to generally apologize for the fact that i just cant type well.
ed hess
race or get outta the way
thanks
i bought the computech dual probe unit....yep digital with memory...
the 2nd bung is in the dp. Just havent gotten to buying the wb02 setup yet.
Heck i can hear that large sucking sound in my garage as i sit in my study typing this. the sound of money going into your truck
ed
i bought the computech dual probe unit....yep digital with memory...
the 2nd bung is in the dp. Just havent gotten to buying the wb02 setup yet.
Heck i can hear that large sucking sound in my garage as i sit in my study typing this. the sound of money going into your truck
ed
thanks
thanks
What about a Dynotune a/f gauge? Junk? http://speedshop.org/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=15. Thanks for all the help. Confusing at times but thanks.
thanks
What about a Dynotune a/f gauge? Junk? http://speedshop.org/store/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=15. Thanks for all the help. Confusing at times but thanks.
GEN3Typhoon
New member
Like rockville speed said... all reading from the EGT are relative to the car... where the sensor is, etc.
So 1300 on mine may be 12:1 but on yours may be 12.5:1 your will be different than mine.
I have not tuned the truck for WOT yet... so I don't have any information yet anyway. I would not post that here... for fear of incorrect interpretation by someone who did not know what they were looking at.
If I said 1300 is 12:1.. sure enough someone would burn up a motor on 1300F.. it is all relative... I of course recommend both... and have bot
EGT's are cheap.. but you will have to dyno tune or something with a wideband to get a good number.. otherwise you have another light show.
So 1300 on mine may be 12:1 but on yours may be 12.5:1 your will be different than mine.
I have not tuned the truck for WOT yet... so I don't have any information yet anyway. I would not post that here... for fear of incorrect interpretation by someone who did not know what they were looking at.
If I said 1300 is 12:1.. sure enough someone would burn up a motor on 1300F.. it is all relative... I of course recommend both... and have bot
EGT's are cheap.. but you will have to dyno tune or something with a wideband to get a good number.. otherwise you have another light show.
Daron
Active member
If your tune is so close to the edge you rely on tuning aids to prevent catastrophic failure, you will soon blow your motor. Backing up traffic after slicking the road with oil on 270 is a much more grievous crime than watching a laptop.
While most of my tuning is at the track, I do often graph results of runs on the street without much fuss. My tune isn't on the ragged edge and my knock limits are well within the ECM's ability to control, so eyeballing a gauge is not needed. I would be concerned about a street driven build and tune, if constant attention to gauges was required to prevent damage. Data logging for later adjustments is helpful however.
Tuning is about starting conservative and tuning in best power vs. knock/egt's/ Air Fuel ratio etc.. Starting out aggressive, where you would need to depend on a 02 to prevent failure is a problem in my opinion. Tuning aids are tools to get the most from your combo; they are absolutely not intended as an alarm for impending failure, at least for most. By the time your "lean measuring" O2 (14.7/1)registers a lean condition, it is likely too late for our SyTy's poor excuse for pistons.
Had you said you use the Autometer 02 sensor for part throttle tuning and gas mileage tweaking, I'd have to agree it could be useful.
While most of my tuning is at the track, I do often graph results of runs on the street without much fuss. My tune isn't on the ragged edge and my knock limits are well within the ECM's ability to control, so eyeballing a gauge is not needed. I would be concerned about a street driven build and tune, if constant attention to gauges was required to prevent damage. Data logging for later adjustments is helpful however.
Tuning is about starting conservative and tuning in best power vs. knock/egt's/ Air Fuel ratio etc.. Starting out aggressive, where you would need to depend on a 02 to prevent failure is a problem in my opinion. Tuning aids are tools to get the most from your combo; they are absolutely not intended as an alarm for impending failure, at least for most. By the time your "lean measuring" O2 (14.7/1)registers a lean condition, it is likely too late for our SyTy's poor excuse for pistons.
Had you said you use the Autometer 02 sensor for part throttle tuning and gas mileage tweaking, I'd have to agree it could be useful.