Cannot find an exact answer

Bewbzout

New member
Ok so i bought a 94 bravada and i would like to drop in a LS- or LQ- and i am wondering if i can use the 4L60E that came in the bravada. I would like to keep the transmission in the stock position so i dont have to deal with drivelines and crossmembers unless i have to. Sorry if this has been asked before but i couldnt find an exact answer. Thanks
 

SyTyAddict

Member
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

I think your best bet would be to use the 4l60e that comes with the LS motor, that way it could be run with the LS pcm. That way you wouldn't have to deal with hard part throttle shifts and wouldn't have to mess with the springs and weights to change shift points. The 4l60e should still bolt in the same to the crossmember and everything. I think the bravada transfer case should bolt up properly to the 4l60e given that it has a 4wd output shaft and proper adapter. The trans should work in the stock location, but you would probably want to use a swap radiator that sits inside the core support for more clearance on the front of the motor. If someone has experience then feel free to correct me.

Btw, you would probably get better and more prompt answers to ls swap question on an s10 forum.
 

Bewbzout

New member
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

See thats what i was thinking but someone was saying that the internals of a 4l60e are the same no matter what they came in. Sorry i dont know much about transmissions so i have no idea if this is true. As far as shift points, they are controlled by the PCM so they can be changed correct?

Please educate me :lol:
 

Quickstop [UK]

Combating adversyty.
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

4l60 e for electronic.

Same internally as a 700r4 apart from springs and governors etc. Shift points are indeed controlled electronically. The ECM could control them or you could use an aftermarket harness.

An LS will make a tonne of power so may be worth considering an 80e as they're much stronger internally.
 

sparkwire

Donating Member
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

You will have to use an adapter,so you can use your syty transfercase. I had a 4l60e in my ls ty before I went to 4l80e. I still have the trans in my garage with the adapter still on it. the trans is from a 2000 T/A ws6. converted to 4wd.
 

Bewbzout

New member
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

Why would i need an adapter if i already have a 4l60e with a transfer case bolted to it? Tell me more.
 

sparkwire

Donating Member
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

I did this in 2003 and it's not real fresh in my memory. but my 4l60e had a 5 bolt, which I had to use a adapter to go to a 4 bolt so my ty transfer case adapter would bolt up to use the ty transfer case. I tried several different transfer case adapters and the angle was not correct for the propshaft.
 
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Beavis

Still plays with trucks
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

My opinion, take your current 60e out and have it fully built and control it with the LS pcm and such. As far as I know, all 60e's are basically the same except the cases (2wd/4wd). There might be some differences due to updates from year to year. You wont need any adapters as long as you are using all your original drive train and it's stock alignments, (I think he was thinking your swapping more stuff).

Now if you are going for big power and gonna beat on it (treat the gas peddle like an on-off switch) every time you drive it, dump the 60e and stuff a built 80e in it have no fear.
 

Bewbzout

New member
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

My opinion, take your current 60e out and have it fully built and control it with the LS pcm and such. As far as I know, all 60e's are basically the same except the cases (2wd/4wd). There might be some differences due to updates from year to year. You wont need any adapters as long as you are using all your original drive train and it's stock alignments, (I think he was thinking your swapping more stuff).

Now if you are going for big power and gonna beat on it (treat the gas peddle like an on-off switch) every time you drive it, dump the 60e and stuff a built 80e in it have no fear.

Thats what i was thinking. Going to keep the LS pretty much stock. From what i have heard the 4L60E is stronger then the 700R4 and electronically controlled. So i am sure it will handle boost launches as it will be less than 350 hp
 

sparkwire

Donating Member
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

If your staying stock with the original trans and transfer case your only problem will be matching the ls flex plate to the torque converter.
 

Beavis

Still plays with trucks
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

From what I understand, the 60e is stronger because the electronics make the part throttle shift softer and easier on the hard parts, clutches, bands and steels. But it will still snap nice and firm under hard throttle. Look for a post by Tbone about his 60e conversion in his syclone. Some good info in that thread about them.
 

Bewbzout

New member
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

Wow looks like he has over a year with good results. Not sure what he is running for an engine or HP level but im sure its alot more than stock.
 

Beavis

Still plays with trucks
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

Many LSx swaps use the 0411 PCM. The 0411 requires the external PRNDL switch and the longer manual shaft. The 94 trans doesn't have the bosses for mounting the switch, nor the longer manual shaft.

The BorgWarner AWD T-case uses a unique trans-to-Tcase adapter. It looks identical to the normal 4X4 adapter, but ithe 5 holes are clocked slightly CCW about 20º when looking forward.

The 4L60e does not have a governor. There are many differences other than "governor and springs".

The 4L60e does live a long time because the 1-2 shift is "adapted" by the ECM. (Much like fuel trim is adjusted by feedback from the O2 sensor in the form of Integrator).. The ECM "times" the 1-2 shift, and changes a table that controls the line pressure during the shift to get the duration of the shift with in programmed parameters. On 1994, only the 1-2 is adapted. I believe that on 0411 PCM's ALL shifts are adapted. Not sure whether a 0411 controlling a 1994 trans will work.

You can identify a "hi perf" 4L60, or 4L60e trans by the presence of a gold-colored manual shift detent bracket with the pan removed. A "hi perf" includes the oil shield on the rear planet, oil holes on the rear planet, and almost always the 093 "corvette" servo, and the corresponding accumulator bushing, springs, and VB calibration necessary for the 093 servo.

1995-up 4L60e use a "PWM" TCC strategy. There is an additional solenoid in the valve body, and the front pump, and case is different. The P1870 code and PWM is very problematic. It burns up converters, and when it sets, the trans goes high-line and causes a harsh 1-2 that usually results in sun-shell destruction. Then it's towed in with no R, 2, or 4th. The cure is a shift kit that eliminates the PWM, and tricks the ECM so it won't set P1870. Not sure how to make a 94 trans work with a 0411 that is "looking for" a PWM solenoid.

There is no difference between a 2WD case, and a 4WD case. The difference is in the output shaft length. That is all. And other than the differences I mentioned in a "hi perf" 4L60 there are no strength differences between a 4L60 and a 4L60e internal parts.

IF you've paid attention to this long-winded, but hopefully useful post, your "take-away" should be that the year of the trans you choose will be determined by the ECM you use. My research shows that the 0411 is the ECM of choice in many LSx swaps. It is going to require a 98-up trans to have the details necessary to be compatible.

Good luck. I can't believe I just spent this amount of time responding to a non SyTy inquiry. There are TONS of LSx forums that have this stuff.
DaveP

Thanks Dave, I forgot about the output shaft length being different and was misinformed about the cases.
So, you might want to find a newer trans afterall........
 

Bewbzout

New member
Re: Cannot find an exact answer

thank you Dave for the info. I will continue doing research but like you said i might want to start looking for a newer trans. Thanks again.
 
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