Crank -- what to do

Pittman

New member
Well I found a great deal on a motor out of a 1992 4x4 blazer. The block is a perfect match for the sy. The engine has about 40k on it. I have stripped it down to bare casting. I am going to start this build as a slow project with a finish date somewhere in the August to September range.

What kind of advice do you guys have for a crank. New factory, New billet, etc. How strong is the factory crank? Is there anything that can be done to a GM crank to toughen it up? I know a billet crank is about $2200 or so and a factory is $700.

This block will be pushing mid to hi 10's (I hope) 4 bolt main, rods, pistons, etc.
 

jwaller

Evil Genius/SyTy Guru
the cranks thats in my motor has accumulated over 300k miles in my blazer and now it's in the TY.... as long as you keep the crank in place....dont deto it....the stocker is more than fine.
 

jwaller

Evil Genius/SyTy Guru
yeah...heck yeah...I can name almost all the trucks that are in the tens now have run stock cranks...and I'm sure lots of others will chime in on this. I would go as far as saying turn it ten under...thats where mine is...but I wouldnt go any further than that with a motor of this level....
 

GM TURBO

Sell Out
If you had any transmission problems - you might want to be careful. I've seen faulty transmissions ruin cranks. :)
 

TURBO TY

New member
here is just an idea. i am tearing down my ty motor. i will have my stock crank looked at. if everything checks out i will have the oil holes chamfered and i will have the crank cryoed. the machine shop i am going thru says it is alot more affective than having the crank nitrided. from what i was told nitriding only goes .20 thousandths deep into the metal and you stand a chance of warping the crank. plus to have my crank cryoed will only cost $115.00. here is the companies web site i am going thru. www.onecryo.com. just my opinion. hope this helps
 

FLSY2730

New member
If money was not a problem i would try and get a billet crank, if i ever do another sy motor it will be bowtie block and billet crank, wonder how much boost that combo could take, wonder how much a stock crank with a 4 bolt block can take , hasn't mcCoy run his motor around 27-28psi?
 
Dennis estimates an "easy" 1200 horsepower with a Bowtie block and billet crank with decent streetability and without going too crazy with the RPMs. This could be done with the stock upper and lower intake (*modified*) but obviously you would need good heads, headers, and a really big turbo - or 2 big turbos. This would not be a cheap build - in line with the Stokes build I imagine but with real numbers to back it up. Displacement would be about 326 cubic inches.

Dennis is not comfortable taking the stock block past 700 horsepower - and that's with only a .010 overbore.

This is something we've (Dennis and I) discussed *many* times.
 

FLSY2730

New member
I cant imagine getting that much power out of the stock intake even ported or taken apart and welded, i guess if you were going that big and with those parts a sheetmetal intake or something would be a little more appropriate.

I wonder what the max power for a stock block,crank sy motor with sy intake could be, 30psi= 800hp maybe , what do you guys think Mccoy was pushing to run 9.90.
 
FLSY2730 said:
I cant imagine getting that much power out of the stock intake even ported or taken apart and welded, i guess if you were going that big and with those parts a sheetmetal intake or something would be a little more appropriate.
Maybe not - Dennis thinks he can and is itching to try. Benefits of staying with stock intake are much more stock appearing and less $$. FWIW the manifolds he did for my Syclone are *wide* open. And ATD the internal configuration is not that bad once the holes are opened up.
FLSY2730 said:
I wonder what the max power for a stock block,crank sy motor with sy intake could be, 30psi= 800hp maybe , what do you guys think Mccoy was pushing to run 9.90.
If the stock crank would hold the stock block would start to "move" which eats up further power gains and then starts breaking stuff.
The trick to making this much power sucessfully is first deciding on a build level, getting a block and internals strong enough to hold that power, and then getting the engine to *really* breath by opening it up from air intake all the way back to the tip of the tailpipe in such a way as too eliminate any restriction *and* properly manage velocity. AFAIK, no one has taken stock intake manifolds "all the way" nor used a proper set of headers - at least not with a single turbo setup. It would be interesting to see how far a build like this could be taken.
 

FLSY2730

New member
I think a 9.90 by jerry has taken the stock intake quite far.

I would be interested to see some results of the headers you or dennis has there.
If turbo tony went 10.70 with stock exhaust manifolds you would think he would benefit from having a good set of headers , like yours if they work out.

As far as restrictions go , i got a new dp from mike lee, once it gets down to the frame it goes to 3.5 inch even the first bend towards the rear and into a 3.5 in/out borla xr-1 race muffler and then a short peice and turn out in front of the tire, having als front kit made room for all of this piping to be straight,no bends which is really nice, and the new turbo from mike has the precision housing so no more 3-4 bolt adapter so the flow is good, you should here this thing run now, its pretty rowdy as before with the atr exhaust was not loud at all .

I have not been to the track yet to test but i will be soon.


How long before your up and running sandman, and where would you go to run it?
 
There are some very fast trucks runnig on the stock block, crank, and/or manifolds. If 10's is your goal you do not need a mega$$ build. However, didn't someone on the BB recently ask why there are no SyTy's in the 8's? I think it was a visiting turbo Buick guy.

I've seen pictures of McCoy's intake manifolds and I don't believe he "opens them up" by cutting and welding before porting. So if those mainfolds will go into the 9's just imagine if they were opened up *much* more.

I'm not trying to infer that there are no good-flowing parts out there. I have not yet heard of a build though that addressed the breathing all the way through though. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. As far as I know the only real high flow setup out there is Mike Lee's twin turbo with tons of good parts and equal flowing exhaust from both sides of the engine (although the header tubes aren't very long). And don't underestimate the importance of proper header design when looking for the big power. Just look at any of the exhaust manifolds or headers for a single turbo SyTy from stock to $30,000+ - they all have short tubes, unequal length, and extremely unequal flow - the crossover pipe makes sure of that, not to mention the effect of putting the wastegate on the crossover. This kills the scavenging effect, slows velocity, and worse slows velocity unequally from the two sides of the motor. This would be bad enough in a sequential EFI setup where there could be at least some degree of compensation. But in a batch fire or bank to bank setup those cylinders are treated the same although they are making different amounts of power. So there will always be some cylinders running relatively rich and some relatively lean.

Mike's setup addresses most of the breathing issues and look at the crazy power he's making - 667 RWHP in a partially tuned state if I recall correctly from his website.

On the WFSLC, which also uses the same basic breathing optimization, the supercharger was rated at something like 925 cfm at 15 lbs of boost (not sure of the exact numbers - ball park only. Also, this is 10 year old technology and could have been even faster with today's better DFI and bigger superchargers). The engine Dennis built (aluminum Donovan small block, 4 inch stroke, 420 cubic inches) breathed so well that on the engine dyno they got the supercharger to flow well over 1000 cfm and were still unable to get boost much over 3 - 5 psi. The engine was sucking the air out of the supercharger! This kinda freaked out some people including Dennis, Sam (car's owner), and the ProCharger people who had never seen this phenomenon before. Unfortunately, this was the biggest supercharger that could possibly fit under the (custom) hood - today there are blowers with more output from the same sized package but it would require pulling the motor, redynoing, and probably upgrading to DFI 7 or another similar system. So Sam is content with 253 mph.

And it's not just power level per se, it's the torque curve, part throttle driveability, turbo lag, required tc stall speed, at least if you care about streetability.

The engine dyno should be up and running in the new PEP building by early Spring. My Syclone motor will be the first to go on it. If there is interest we can make a dyno day of it and observe *if* we don't bother Dennis - he's *very* serious when dynoing engines. I hope to be driving the Syclone by April or May. Only gonna do a coupla passes at the track for benchmarking - she's a streeter...

At some point, engine building becomes philosophy...
 

Pittman

New member
Sy's or Ty's in the 8's Hum?
Well I know this from my buick. There are too many reasons to list why buicks are faster. (overall) Chassis is a "BIG" difference not to mention wt. Ill be running a backhalfed stage II buick this summer with stg 1 champion heads and a one pte76. Ill bet I can knock out a mid 9 with atleast a 1.5 60'. Next summer will be full stage II with a bigger turbo and hopefully 8's. With the same amount of many I could only get my sy into the 10's awd maybe a hi 9 2wd. Honestly, there are sy guys out there right now with the HP to run 9's in syclones (if what they are claiming accurate) in a 2wd setup. If they could make use of it. As for as an AWD 9 sec run is concerned. Whoa thats pretty tough.

In the future if guys like Lee can get an odd fire and sequential going. I have no doubt we'll see a low 9. " BUT " becuase of wt. and chassis setup I doubt and 8 for a while. Im not saying it wont happen. Its just you would have to do some major cutting on a sy to have weight and chassis setup that would work. That 1/4 mile ET is mostly made in the 8th and I have a hard time seeing a heavy truck doing it. I just dont think POWER is the issue these trucks make power. Id bet any full wt AWD sy running mid 10's well into the mid 130's is close VERY close to a 1000hp.

Again I dont mean to piss on anyones camp fire here. Comparing a GN to a SY well its comparing a car to a truck.
 
I didn't exactly say it would be easy to run 8's.

It would not be hard at all to drop weight from a SyTy. Just expensive. Dennis estimates a 1000 - 1200 lb weight loss with a full chromemoly tubular chassis, custom McPherson strut type front suspension, and rear 4 link with coilovers. An aluminum Bowtie block, aluminum heads, some fiberglass body panels and bed, custom skeletonized aluminum radiator support...damn you can probably make a Syclone that weighs not much more than 2000 pounds if you have the budget. Get under the truck with some aluminum sheeting to smooth airflow, lower it as much as possible, chop the top a couple of 3 inches - aerodynamics can be improved to some extent. Now throw in 1200 or more horsepower...

The WFSLC cost over $300,000 to build 10 years ago.
 

FLSY2730

New member
Sandman, what kinda et goals are you shooting for your syclone?

Also, how much are those headers going to cost , what are they 1-5/8 or 1-3/4?
 
FLSY2730 said:
Sandman, what kinda et goals are you shooting for your syclone?
It's hard to say - this is a different build than the norm. AWD, a bit lighter than stock, custom front and rear PEP suspension, stock block, stroked stock crank with 700 horsepower ("flywheel"), highly modified stock intake, heavily worked L35 heads, FAST, 75 lb injectors, GT66 dual BB turbo, custom headers, downpipe and exhaust, and modified fueling, oiling, cooling, intercooling, ignition, trans, steering, brakes...If the stock stroker crank and drivetrain hold up I'm gonna guess low 10's.


FLSY2730 said:
Also, how much are those headers going to cost , what are they 1-5/8 or 1-3/4?
In coated mild steel, which Dennis highly recommends over stainless, a complete package of headers, collectors, wastegate takeoff, and downpipe you're looking at a bit shy of $2000. ATR would get around $1650 for their stainless headers, downpipe, and adapter. He could work around someone else's downpipe if you wanted. The header tubes are sized according to intended horsepower.
 
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