Electric Fans

[dgoodhue]

I need to buy some Electric fans for my Sy. (I don't have the option to run a mechanical fan) A pair of Ramcharger fans seem to be a popular option, but what model should I buy? and where do I buy them? Do I need a new alternator or is it just recommended?

BTW What happened to the mailing list archives?

 

[sytyguy]

Dave........I personally run the Flexalite 220 Dual Electric Fan setup. It's a low-profile dual 12" fan combo that pulls about 2500 cfm and fits perfectly (I mean PERFECTLY) on the stock radiator. Unit is 2 1/4" thick, so it stays outta the way.

If ya need one, I sell them thru my store for $199.99 (FLE-220 - no t-static control) and $219.99 (FLE-210 - with t-static control). Summit and Jegs carry them as well.

There are cheaper options out there like the Taurus or Mark VIII fan, but I'm happy with my fan setup and wouldn't change it. However, I haven't looked into other units.

My .02,

Hood

 

[Lynn D. Brown]

Hey, Michael, I may be interested in that dual fan setup. If it's only 2-¼" thick, then it should fit my Griffin also, which is ~ 3/4" thicker than the stock Rad. I need something no thicker than 3".

So, did U keep the stock shroud ? - it also supports the Rad. Then how did U attach these fans to the stock shroud ? Does this fan set have its own shroud ?

Include switches, relays and wiring ? Can the fans be controlled individually ?

Thanx 4 any help.

 

[sytyguy]

Lynn, I removed the lower shroud for more room for my ext. gate and IC lines, but you'd have no problem retaining it if necessary. I kept part of the upper shroud (cut off the sides), but it too would fit fine if you desired to keep it. Basically (width & height wise) the fan unit fits about 1/4" in on the core on all sides and it is thin enough to not cause any clearance problems with the shrouds, etc....

You can see the shroud/fan a little in the engine pics on my site. I'll snap some more pics as this comes up often, but here are the ones I have for now:

http://www.georgiasyty.com/Michael/engine.htm

HTHs

Hood

 

[Lynn D. Brown]

Great pics, Michael ! It looks like U were able to get your Trans Cooler line in there. I guess your Turbo is shorter than my PTE-63 - which one ? I'm having to raise my Griffin Rad about 1" to get that line in.

 

[sytyguy]

Thanks Lynn. My turbo? 60-1/Mitsubishi Hybrid. Good street turbo....spools like mad, but I could use more flow (prolly get a new hybrid here in the next 6 mos or so).

Also, I have since relocated my tranny cooler to the underside of the bed and ran custom made hydraulic hoses to and from (it's great having an in house hydraulic hose machine ). But I never ran into any problems with the 90 deg fitting I had on the stock cooler before. It was close, but it cleared. A larger turbo and different intake setup and I could see where you'd have problems.

I'll snap some better pics tonite/tomorrow and get them up.

Hood

 

[dgoodhue]

Do I have to use the upper fan shroud? I really don't have anything to easily mount it to.

What is the T-static control? I planned to use the IC realay and modify my chip to turn the main fan on but I haven't decided on how I want to control the IC pump. (Probably just a manual switch)

Does anyone know how the ramcharger electric fans compare in flow?

 

[sytyguy]

Dave......you don't have to keep the upper shroud. In fact, it'll prolly look a lot cleaner w/o it. I just kept it to keep my upper radiator hose from moving around to much and hitting the alternator. I have plans to get rid of it in the near future, but it's there for now.

The thermostatic control? Basically it's a temp probe that goes into one of the coolant hoses (under hose and gets clamped down). Then you have a control box that get mounted elsewhere and you can dial in the temp setting to cut the fan on. I decided not to run the t-stat control because I wanted complete control of when my fan comes. Of course you could still run a manual override with the controls, but I chose not to. And you could also wire in the fan with the IC controls as you said. That's my plan eventually, I just got lazy this go around.

Hood

 

[Lynn D. Brown]

Michael -

But doesn't the upper shroud keep the radiator against the front sheetmetal ? Otherwise if U don't restain it might it not go backwards towards the engine ?

 

[sy112]

not to jump in here guys, but about wiring the fans to the IC control. If you did that and had your IC hardwired would the fans kick on whnever you turned the ignition on or would it turn on at the setting you have on the chip? Seems like a good idea to have it turn on by the IC controls on the chip and still have the IC pump hotwired if that's possible. then also have a override switch for when you are wanting to cool it down in the pits.

On another note, I am currently thinking about buying a spal fan like on the sytyarchives site and by those instrucitons the fan will turn on when the IC pump is on also. Would having both setups running when the IC pump is running put to much strain on the altenator(stock for now). I am planning on staying with the mech fan for a while due to money but would like to install the IC fan pretty soon.

What I would like to do is..........

1. I belive the IC pump should be running when the truck is running, leave it that way.

2. Have my IC fan(single not dual) turn on at a certain temp for when the cooler is having a hard time to keep up, other than that just let the air flow and the IC scoop do the rest. Basically to ensure in traffic driving or cruising mode. have a manual switch for cooling in the lanes.

3. Go to electirc fans and have them temp controlled with manual switch for in the lanes also.

also, I will have the hi-tech tranny cooler with fan mounted under my bed inline with the B&M supercooler mounted up front so I will have the draw from that as well. Man, looking at my whole setup I'm going to have several electric fans running, possibly all at the same time. Guess a kick butt altenator is definately in the near future.

I am no electrical genius, so can all of this be accomplished by a normal joe like me?

 

[sytyguy]

Lynn.....right you are, for the stock setup. However, for Dave and others thinking of going this route, finding a method to hold the rad against the front support is simple enough. A couple of makeshift brackets are all that is needed, but for someone wanting a show quality look, fab'ing a custom top cover/bracket should be easy.

I would still retain the lower shroud channel that the rad sits in. This way there is some cushion. I just cut the actual "shroud" part of the lower off. You could do the same with upper should as well, thus retaining the cushion supports & mounts.

I'm gonna address Don in the next reply as it'll be lengthy.

Hood

 

[sytyguy]

Don.....are you wanting to use the chip to control a radiator fan or an IC fan?

If it's an engine fan you are referring to, then here is how I had planned to run my setup:

- Separate the IC pump/fans from ECM/stock relay control and use a 5 pin Bosch relay to power them.
- Wire in my electric fan with the stock IC weatherpack connector over by the fuse block.
- Use the chip to control cuton/cutoff temps (remember, yellow wire cannot be grounded permanently).
- Run the wire I had grounding the yellow wire to one side of a toggle switch and the other side to ground.

In this configuration, the IC pump/fans will come on with ignition or toggle switch. The electric fans would come on via chip control, unless the manual toggle switch was flipped.....in which case the yellow wire would be grounded and the fans would run via the switch.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now......as far as the chip controls go, it's pretty simple. The chip controls the fan thru these addresses - 0x00AD thru 0x00CE. The ones to mainly be concerned with are your temp controls. It's pretty straightforward and a few minutes of looking at it in Promgrammer and you'll have it figured out. Aside from just on/off based on coolant temp, you have some tuneability via MAT temps. Also, you have the ability to run the fan after shutoff for a specified time interval (sec).

Below is the fan enable/disable criteria. Pulled from Section 18.1 of "The Document":

FAN ENABLE

Either of two sets of conditions can enable the low speed fan (FAN).

Condition 1:
Malf Codes 14 or 15 set or engine coolant temperature greater than or equal to *KFAN2THH*. Under this condition, the low speed fan (FAN) will be turned on after *KFANTIM1* seconds. *KFANTIM1* is the fan anticipate timer for idle air control (IAC).

Condition 2:
Malf Codes 14 or 15 not set and engine coolant temperature below *KFAN2THH* (or *KFAN2THL* if the conditions to enable the high speed have been met).

Under Condition 2, all of the following conditions must be satisfied to enable the low speed fan (FAN). The fan will be turned on *KFANTIMI* seconds after being enabled. *KFANTIM1* is the fan anticipate timer for idle air control (IAC)

1. Engine coolant temperature greater than *KFANCTHH*. The lower hysteresis value of coolant temperature is *KFANCTHL*.

2. Either conditions A, B, or C.

Condition A
· VS A/C compressor option selected and VS fan discrete high.

Condition B
· V5 A/C option not selected (KAFOP2, b2=0).
· A/C discrete is selected (IACMWl b5=1).

Condition C
· V5 A/C compressor option not selected (KAFOP2, b2=0).
· A/C discrete low (IACMW1, b5=0).
· A/C is active.
· Fan run time is less than *KFANTIM2*.

3. If a MAT sensor is used in the system, manifold air temperature (MAT) A/D counts less than *KFANMTCH* (temperature exceeds a threshold). The corresponding hysteresis value of manifold air temperature is *KFANMTCL*.

4. If a MAT sensor is not used in the system, engine coolant A/D counts less than *KFANCTCH* (temperature exceeds a threshold). The corresponding hysteresis value of coolant temperature is *KFANCTCL*.

5. Vehicle speed less than *KFANVSLK* or coolant temperature greater than or equal to *KFANCLTH*. The hysteresis value of vehicle speed is *KFANVSHK*. The hysteresis value of coolant temperature is *KFACCLTL*.

FAN DISABLE

The following conditions will disable and turn off the low-speed fan (FAN).
Engine coolant temperature dropping below the hysteresis value *KFANCTHL*, and any of the following:

1. V5 A/C compressor option selected and V5 fan discrete low

2. V5 A/C compressor option not selected (KAFop2, b3=0), A/C is active, and FAN Run timer is greater than or equal to *KFANTIM2*.

3. v5 A/C compressor option not selected (KAFOP2, b2=0), and a/c is not active

4. If a MAT sensor is used in the system, manifold air temperature dropping below the hysteresis value *KFANMTCL*.

5. If a MAT sensor is not used in the system, engine coolant temperatures droppingbelow the hysteresis value *KFANCTCL*. 6. Vehicle speed dropping below the hysteresis value *KFANVSK*.

That's a lot to digest (for me as well), but I hope it can help you out somewhat. If you have any questions, shoot me a line. I "might" just be able to help. :wink:

Michael

 

[sy112]

michael,

that was perfect actually. and believe it or not I only had to read it in the neighbor hood of about 6 times for it to start sinking in

your setup sounds like the setup i wanted but I wanted the IC fan to come on on temp control. But might as well have it turn on when the IC pump comes on, I will have to have a nice altenator regardless.

hope you don't mind if I "borrow" your setup

might be calling you when it comes to the specifics of wiring it all, like I said, electricity ownz me :x

 

[dgoodhue]

Lynn However, for Dave and others thinking of going this route, finding a method to hold the rad against the front support is simple enough. A couple of makeshift brackets are all that is needed, but for someone wanting a show quality look, fab'ing a custom top cover/bracket should be

My radiator is bolted on the top to a sketon radiator support. The bottom of the radiator is held in by rubber pads on brackets.

 

[Tydriver]

With the information Michael posted about using the ecm as fan control I strongly suggest we VAULT this post !

 

[protosy]

i second the vault request!

 

[sytyguy]

Don......glad to help. If you have any questions about wiring it up, shoot me a line.....seriously. And since this may get vaulted, here's a quick how-to on wiring a 5 pin Bosch relay:

The Bosch relay consists of 5 pins, numbered like so:

30 - power
85 - ground for coil
86 - power for coil
87 - hot when coil activated
87a - hot when coil deactivated

So, basically.....run a hot feed from whatever source you desire (back of alt, junction block, etc....) to power the relay to pin 30. Next, hook your power from your toggle switch (low load) to pin 85 or 86 and run a ground from the other pin (85 or 86). Lastly, wire your "power out" wire to your device (pump, fan, etc...) to pin 87.

With the relay configured this way, all you have to do is flip a toggle switch (inline with the power wire going to 85 or 86) to activate the coil. When the coil is activated power goes from pin 30 to pin 87. However, when the coil is not activated, pin 87a will be receiving power. If you plan to not use this pin, you may wish to cap pin 87a or break it off alltogether. Also, remember to wire a 30 amp fuse inline with the power feed wire to pin 30.

*85 & 86 can be switched since they are merely two ends of a coil, thus current can flow both ways. However, if the relay is equipped with a tamping diode, be sure to hook it up according to polarity.


HTHs

Hood

 

[sy112]

damn hood, that was what I was going to talk to you about on the install stuff. Must deal with electical idiots like me a lot huh

 

[Lynn D. Brown]

Hey Guys,

I was doing a little calculating the other day - I know, a dangerous thing. Anyway 1 - 18" fan would have a surface area of 254 in2 vs an area of 190 in2 for 2 11"ers. 2-12's would be 226 in2, but I'm not sure that we can fit in 2-12's.

In any event the 1-18"er has more area, so what's the point of putting in 2 fans, except maybe for the ability to have only one running ? Seems like 1 big fan might move more air. Maybe, however, U can stuff more HP and RPM into 2 smaller ones ?

 

[sy112]

RUN FOR YOU LIVES........Lynn broke out the calculator

seriously, good point there. I want the electric mainly for 2 things.

1. to free up just a few horsepower being robbed by the mech fan

2. the convenience of futher cooling while waiting in the pit/staging lanes

honestly number 2 is the biggest reason. I don't need the biggest baddest they make, just want something to fit those 2 requirements and give me adequate cooling in the Texas heat, without to much headache or money wasted.

I want the added cooling in the lanes for 2 reasons also

1. the obvious, the cooler the faster

2. from my understanding of the way the Ultimate is programmed, whenever the engine temp gets nice and warm the chip pulls timing out since our heads are knock prone anyway, kind of a added safety feature. I haven't researched it much but I have been thinking about chipping that feature out and see how it goes, since I am spraying and my IAT and considerably lower than the norm. But either way I want the added cooling in the lanes.

If BG is around somewhere maybe he could jump in and clarify that whole theory for me and maybe toss in his opinion.