Factory Turbo Upgrade?

[Brwndrvr05]

Did some searches and came up with Wallers 57mm turbo upgrade and SM BMW wheel. I read a few people doing the BMW wheel but have not heard very much feedback as to performance gains on doing this upgrade. I see a lot of people have done the Waller 57mm upgrade to stock turbo, and would like to get more info on doing this upgrade. I have the factory turbo out now and will be doing the rebuild my self. Where can i get this 57mm wheel from and is there any other mods needed to do this upgrade? I know the compressor cover will need to be machined to accept the new wheel and the assembly will need re balancing. I will also be porting the wastegate pocket my self for better boost control, and port matching the inlet.

Anyone know if anything gets done to the turbine wheel, as far as getting clipped for better flow with the 8cm housing?

Just quite not ready for a bigger turbo yet, just want to max out the factory one and see how far it will take me.

Thanks!

 

[Static]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

Ive 57mm modified by Waller. Spools very fast but Ive had boost control issues since hes modded it. It would make 25 psi if I let it. Even running stock exhaust and the wg rod cranked out pretty far. Even with the wg puck removed and a JSM style downpipe I have boost spikes. Im sure this upgrade lead to maxing out my stock injector duty cycle. If youre going to upgrade your turbo I would plan on running 60lb injectors if you havent already.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

I would install a 9 bladed turbine wheel http://www.ebay.com/itm/121121037137?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/t...sl220g11bladesubarudsmlighter9blades-1-1.aspx

& use a 57 MM compressor wheel. Just examples.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Billet-Comp...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4189508fcb&vxp=mtr

or http://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Compr...Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f41191faa&vxp=mtr, if using a Garrett type, you would need one for a small shaft Garrett & have it machined to fit the Mitsubishi shaft

That way it will breath on the exhaust side a lot better, it needs it BTW, & to keep it simple, just machining the compressor cover & install a 57 MM compressor wheel.

If you just upgrade the compressor wheel, it will not be much of an improvement IMO, because the exhaust needs to be opened up also allowing the exhaust to breath as well.

I would highly recommend porting the wastegate hole bigger also to have better boost control.

 

[Brwndrvr05]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

It's just a six, are these the exact parts i need to do this set up correctly, or examples to get an idea of what is needed?

Was thinking of removing the plug on back of turbine housing to do some work on the WG hole and was also thinking of welding a cap in place of that plug. Seems like WG flap only opens slightly about 30% of the way because it hits the plug and its restricting it from fully opening. The cap would be further away from WG flap thus allowing it to open further, 50-80% open instead slightly open.

What are your thoughts on this modification?

 

[The Dread Pirate Fisher]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

I just removed my puck tonight, I can take pics of it and post them tomorrow. It now opens like 60-70%, there is still room to remove more meat off the turbine housing for more.

I too want to use that 9 blade turbine wheel, but I'm unsure whom to have mill the housing. I took measurements and that exact wheel is 3mm larger than stock on both inducer and exducer.

Anyone know of a company that can mill my housing to accept that 9 blade wheel?

 

[Brwndrvr05]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

Dread pirate fisher, please post pics.
What are your plans with the puck and WG situation?

Are you upgrading the the compressor wheel also?

There is a company here in Los Angeles that specializes in these type of thing. I can give you there info if your willing to ship it way out here. Just P.M. me for info.

 

[Darin]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

Don't spend the money to machine the housing, just buy a new one, they are $200, not worh getting your stock one machined. Easier to buy and put together.

 

[Davemc1963]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

I think you will find that this is the 50 trim wheel that is used (Although it would be a genuine Garrett one, not a Kinugawa copy).

http://shopping.kinugawaturbo.com/turbocompressorwheelgarrettt3t4t04e53mm762mm50trim448048-0004.aspx

You can open up the wastegate port and exhaust inlet to varying degrees. I have pictures of mine, but not sure how to post them, but could email you them if you like. If you are over enthusiastic, you could detrimentally change the housing dynamics if you wern't careful and went too deep into the housing. I wouldn't want to remove any more material from mine than what I have done. Mine has the standard turbine wheel fitted, but if I were to buy again, I would possibly go for the 11 blade wheel instead of the stock 12 blade. I dont know if the 9 blade would spool too fast and overwhelm the wastegate causing boost spikes. Thats just an opinion though. That said, I would like to tell you how it performs, but am unable to yet. Regarding boost spikes, one thought I have always had is the length of hose in that loop, its internal diameter and also that the solenoid is in there too. All that must delay the wastegate response time. Possibly bigger tubing would help and/or going to a custom wastegate. Kinugawa can make you a custom one for reasonable $$ or theres the Forge unit more much more $$.

 

[Brwndrvr05]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

In the turbine housing i have created a nice scoop before the WG hole as per Wallers old posts/recommendations.

I noticed the WG flapper is not fully opening due to it being obstructed by the plug that is spot welded there. I figured moving the placement further away from the flapper would open up more space for the flapper to open much more giving the WG hole more space to dump exhaust gases a bit faster.

Im having a 3rd gear over boost problem due to adding a RPM catback. Im trying to get that corrected while staying with a stock DP, and thought if i move the placement of the plug allowing the WG flapper to open a bit more would help alot.

I also have a Forge WG actuator.

Any thoughts?

 

[The Dread Pirate Fisher]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

ok I go some pics today, keep in mind I have not knocked down the lip inside the puck area yet.




this is fully opened.. you can see now the flapper protrudes past the housing a little bit


another shot





this is how far the wastegate flapper would open if the puck was in place, this would be hitting the back of the puck... you can see its not very much



and this is now fully open, like the other pics, but same angle as above for comparisson

 

[The Dread Pirate Fisher]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

and this is what I will be using since I have now removed the puck... I was going to make a "scallop" connected to the main pipe.. but instead I opted to use this 1.75" pipe and give it its own exit, instead of going back up.. so its basically a straight shot out the small pipe now, since the flapper essentially opens towards the bottom anyway




I opted for a 2.5" mandrel bent down pipe that I made back in May. it goes out to the 3" cat and 3" all the way back out. I made a 2 piece design for ease of installation and removal. Im only changing the top half now since I removed the puck, the rest is still useable.

 

[Brwndrvr05]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

Who makes that flange?

Looks like it should work pretty well, only concern would be the flapper not being able to swing open 100%, thus restricting 50% of the flow path on that outlet, but anything is better than the stock set up.

The JSM style flange seems like it might work a lil better because it allows the flapper to open almost 180 degrees. Cutting the flange open from the back of the turbo allows the flapper to completely open.

All in all good work! Keep us updated on how everything works out.

 

[bigmileage]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

I used a JSM style flange when I built mine; the pipe took a while to build though because of that design. Yours definitely looks easier, I spend a few hours getting the two pipes fabbed, ground and welded back up.

 

[The Dread Pirate Fisher]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

Who makes that flange?

Looks like it should work pretty well, only concern would be the flapper not being able to swing open 100%, thus restricting 50% of the flow path on that outlet, but anything is better than the stock set up.

The JSM style flange seems like it might work a lil better because it allows the flapper to open almost 180 degrees. Cutting the flange open from the back of the turbo allows the flapper to completely open.

All in all good work! Keep us updated on how everything works out.

actually the limiting factor is the housing itself... you cant cut that much more out with the JSM flange as the flapper hits a part of the housing that you can not cut out... the flapper opens towards the bottom left, not towards the top.. so when its open like I have it.. its literally a straight shot into the pipe I made.

you wont ever have or be able to get the flapper completely open to a 90*.. besides it doesn't need to be since its just bleeding off excess pressure and not a 100% of the time exhaust... so trying to get it "open all the way" wont happen and doesn't need to be that way anyway.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

It's just a six, are these the exact parts i need to do this set up correctly, or examples to get an idea of what is needed?

Was thinking of removing the plug on back of turbine housing to do some work on the WG hole and was also thinking of welding a cap in place of that plug. Seems like WG flap only opens slightly about 30% of the way because it hits the plug and its restricting it from fully opening. The cap would be further away from WG flap thus allowing it to open further, 50-80% open instead slightly open.

What are your thoughts on this modification?

The 9 bladed turbine wheel is what I would get for sure.
The compressor wheels are not a direct drop in. A Garrett 57 MM compressor wheel will work as long as it is for the small shaft Garret type turbine shaft, but it would need to be machined just a bit larger to fit a Mitsubishi turbine shaft. The mounting hole on the compressor wheel would need to be opened up.

The wastegate valve not opening far enough is not the flow problem as much as the valve to the surrounding wall next to the valve.
Think of it as when you install a larger intake valve in a combustion chamber, a lot of times when you install a larger valve the combustion chamber will shroud the valves, meaning even though you have larger valves installed it could actually flow less air because the chamber wall is so close to the valves it will flow less.

Here is a pic of how you should unshroud the wastegate valve.


At a certain point the wastegate valve opens, it will be the closest to the wall, this is where you would do a little more relieving of the wall.

Hope this makes sense.

Also, you need to open up the wastegate hole itself, but be careful, if you take away too much material on one side, the valve can get cocked & will not close properly.

After doing this to my 12 CM turbine housing & running a TDO6H 12 bladed turbine wheel (stock Mitsubishi) I have solid boost control & have run up to 25 PSI of boost. I still am using the factory sized wasegate flapper valve.

 

[Brwndrvr05]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

seems like a good idea to clearance the surrounding wall and unshroud the valve itself. When you put the plug back in are you going to weld it completely around since the lip has been removed where the plug sits?

Are you running the stock 3 bolt DP with this set up?

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Factory Turbo Upgrade?

seems like a good idea to clearance the surrounding wall and unshroud the valve itself. When you put the plug back in are you going to weld it completely around since the lip has been removed where the plug sits?

Are you running the stock 3 bolt DP with this set up?

You do not need to weld all the way around the plug. The lip is still there.

The plugs are an interference fit, so they really do not leak, the weld just keeps it in place.

I am using the stock DP.