fueling tables F29E and F30

E-Rue

New member
well i burned another chip today to see if i could remove some of the richness in my idle, and light throttle. i was hoping to remove a little tip in hesitation in the process. also i had a little knock at TC lockup, so i wanted to trim that down.

this is what i did. (notes from the comments section in promgrammer)

lowered timing on TC lockup (55mph) 2000,2400 rpm vs. 150,165,180 kpa.
lowered fueling in the F29E table around 800-900rpm and 48-54kpa (about 3 clicks)
lowered fueling in the F30 table around the 0 to 2000rpm area (about 2 clicks)

what i was surprised to find, is that, a leaner mixture, although still rich to the O2sensor, didnt make the truck idle better, but instead it started to hunt just a little bit. idle was just waving between 800 and 900 rpm. it seemed to lose the ever so slight tip in thing it was doing, but now the idle is bothering me. i guess i fixed one thing but caused another. i really thought i understood the tables and what they did perfectly. but im not sure what would cause an irregular idle like that. mabe there is more tables than the two im using? mabe im a nOOb and a cracker? mabe my truck doesnt want to idle at what the O2 thinks is a good mix? i probably need to drive it more, to really get a feel for what its doing. theres always tomorrow :p

BTW: for those of you that dont know, im chip tuning a 512 lift mccoy cam. i started with a chip that was written for a stokes grind cam, so its in the ballpark already. just needs some fine tuning!

e
 

Buster

New member
Most of the time the tip in hesitation comes from PE fueling, I used to watch my desire AFR to confirm PE fueling and the wideband on a separate gauge, as soon as the PE fueling kicked in, it'd go way rich so I started pulling from table 61, worked great.

That table is also very useful for leaning out your spool up. At nationals I could only get 1-2 PSI at the line, after pulling fuel in the very low rpms I could get 16 PSI at the line, went from 11.8's to 11.3's just from that change.

As for the idle, mine likes the extra fuel. The only part in that chip that needs LOTS of work is the cold start up fueling, it runs very rich at start up and smells like shi*.
 

JSM

Active member
How rich is Rich?

In my playing, I have discovered on my truck, Rich does make it idle smooth, but as Mark mentioned, hurts spool bigtime.

With cam, you may never get a GREAT idle.

Jeff
 

leroy

Donating Member
Are you tuning open loop Eric? I prefer open loop when tuning cam or big injectors.

In my experience, the truck will idle better on the rich side. I think the F29E table is kind of screwed up with a 3 bar map. I haven't really verified it, because I've gotten a good idle by trial and error. It doesn't seem like idle is affected much unless you make changes around 50kpa and up in that table. Anyone else notice that?

Don't be discouraged after one burn. It may take dozens to make you happy with it. It's also best to change one parameter at a time until you get a little more experience.

Cold start up fueling is hard to get right. The truck is warmed up before you know it, and you have to wait for it to cool down again to test the next chip.

Jim
 

Buster

New member
JS Design said:
How rich is Rich?

In my playing, I have discovered on my truck, Rich does make it idle smooth, but as Mark mentioned, hurts spool bigtime.

With cam, you may never get a GREAT idle.

Jeff

When cold mine idles at like 11.5-1, when warm it idles at 12.8-1, and for spool up I now run mine at 13.0-1 in low rpms and at low boost (0-10psi).

Eric, If you lean out the lower RPMs of T61 it won't effect idle, just when you trying to build boost at the line.
 

Buster

New member
leroy said:
In my experience, the truck will idle better on the rich side. I think the F29E table is kind of screwed up with a 3 bar map. I haven't really verified it, because I've gotten a good idle by trial and error. It doesn't seem like idle is affected much unless you make changes around 50kpa and up in that table. Anyone else notice that?
Jim

Yes, I've never been able to control idle fuel very well, I've tried using F57, and F29E without much success.
 

E-Rue

New member
why isnt there a table that works like the F37 table, except for the VE portion of the fueling? i dont see how the ECM makes any differentiation in fueling based on coolent temp at idle and part throttle?

what are the tables your using for cold start?

e
 
I don't know about this chip stuff, but when I get it to idle around 13.2-13.3 the tach doesn't move off of 900. I tried 750-800, but it doesn't like it too much. And I've found no real difference in Open v. Closed, but this is FAST, not stock ECM

Idle around 14.7 is nice for spoolup, but sometimes it has a lean tip-in during the 3 weeks of cold here.
 

E-Rue

New member
im curious...... i see that there is an ECM controlled limit to the richness and leaness for the cold start tables. i wonder if they really work. i dont see exactly how the ECM is susposed to accurately measure an air fuel ratio. do you know what the formula is behind the cold start tables? are there any other fueling tables that are added to F56 and F57? or is it just a stand alone table, that does its thing, and then goes away after it reaches a temp of KAFTCTH?

hey jim, if i want the O2 sensor to heat up, so it reads correctly during a cold start condition, can i turn the key forward and wait a bit before i start the truck or does that work?

e
 

leroy

Donating Member
The ECM doesn't accurately measure the air/fuel ratio. It calculates it, based on sensor inputs, VE tables, etc.. Details can be found in the P4 document.

Turning the key on would get you to KO2ATIME earlier, but the coolant temperature threshold won't be met. I'm guessing your O2 sensor voltage would be fairly accurate, but not sure that helps much with a narrow band.

You need to get that wide band going E.

Jim
 

E-Rue

New member
well i have the board built (by myclone) and i have the directions to install that basterd, but the sensor is on national backorder. if you know where i can get one ill buy it today.

e
 

E-Rue

New member
well i ordered it yesterday, and the email i got today says its on the way!

WOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

e
 

E-Rue

New member
shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Dear Mr. Rue,

Thank you for shopping NAPAonline.com. We apologize for the delay in
contacting you. We regret to inform you the oxygen sensor that you ordered
part number OS791 is not available at this time. It is on factory
back--order. We do not have an estimated delivery date available. We have
attempted to locate this item for you without success. Your order number
9359158 will be cancelled. You will not incur any charges relating to the
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10secTy

Sy-Ty builder and Tuner
I can get a sensor for Wednesday for $220US. It is more but this is dealer pricing.

Nolan
 
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