GM/Packard plug wires?

[InvisiBill]

I know they're not ATRs or Taylors, but hear me out. I had Packard wires on my truck when I bought it at 77k, and didn't put my Taylors on until after 100k. They seemed to do ok, though I didn't have DM at the time to verify that. I never saw any tach flutter with them until shortly before I did a full tuneup (not even sure the wires were the problem). Some of the SyTy guys at Al's last year looked at the plugs I pulled out shortly after I got it, and thought they might have been the originals. I think the wires may have been also...

I'm getting some tach flutter again, so I'll probably be changing wires again soon. I was just wondering if anyone had any good or bad experiences with GM wires. Like I said, mine seemed ok, but I can't verify that they were or weren't causing the flutter. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but sometimes options get overlooked...

Guh. GM list on 12074091 (from SyTyAuthority.net) is over $106. Guess those Taylors aren't too bad afterall...

One final question. Do the GM metal boot shields help at all? Or am I better off with either the ceramic ones or just not bothering at all?

 

[Ian Turgeon]

http://whitetyphoon.com/misc_info.html

 

[InvisiBill]

I'm still not sure about the resistance thing. At higher frequencies(?) electricity travels along only the outside surface of a wire. "Skin effect". Working for a Motorola dealer, this is how RF travels on the coax to the antenna. On Magnecore's site they say that spark plug wires work on the same principle. This means that regular end-to-end resistance doesn't have anything to do with anything, since the electricity would be taking a different path from what was measured.

The tech at work didn't think spark plug wires would be getting into "skin" range though. I don't know for sure one way or the other. But if it's true, then those measurements mean nothing...

 

[Lynn D. Brown]

SP Wires

SP Wires

Bill,

It doesn't make sense that the current would flow on the outside of the wires, since there is no electrical conductor there and it certainly can't jump a gap as large as the length of the wire. But indeed the resistance of the wires may not be significant. The actual amperage thru the wire is not large, so the IR drop across the wire is probably not very high.

 

[Loeryder]

The biggest thing about doing wires is keeping them away form the hot stuff.

That and I try to not let them cross at an angle, try using the snap ring dividers to keep them as parallel as ya can.

Those GM metal boots look more like aheat SINK that a shield to me.
Now if they were wrapped in heat reflective matl maybe, but I'd use a spark plug "sock" before i go adding more metal to an already intensly heated area.
I heard more than one person say those Holley wire GP with the metal boots was shit. the metal boots transferred more heat to the wire and some melted over short time.
thermoTec makes the spark plug socks and sop does taylor.
www.summitracing.com
For what they charge I would only use 2 boots one on #4 and #6.
the rest should be fine with out it.

Just haven't got mine ordered yet.

Tach dance comes from many things all ignition...
Wires not snapped on tight
Wires criss crossing causing EFI
plug insulator cracked during install #3 usually
cap not seated correctly

 

[InvisiBill]

Re: SP Wires

Re: SP Wires

Bill,

It doesn't make sense that the current would flow on the outside of the wires, since there is no electrical conductor there and it certainly can't jump a gap as large as the length of the wire. But indeed the resistance of the wires may not be significant. The actual amperage thru the wire is not large, so the IR drop across the wire is probably not very high.

Skin effect is a proven fact. I'm just not sure if the current on spark plug wires is high enough frequency where skin effect comes into play. Basically the spark travels along the outside edge of the coiled wires, where as the resistance measurement is from end to end. Like I said, I'm not sure where the lines cross, but this is what some people say and at least some of it does have evidence supporting it.

I'm more wondering what people's real-world experience with GM wires is, as mine seemed to be pretty good, especially if they 100k on them...

 

[kwick6]

Re: SP Wires

Re: SP Wires

I'm more wondering what people's real-world experience with GM wires is, as mine seemed to be pretty good, especially if they 100k on them...

Talk to Jim (saudisy) he still uses them.

later,

 

[Daron]

Re: SP Wires

Re: SP Wires

Bill,

It doesn't make sense that the current would flow on the outside of the wires, since there is no electrical conductor there and it certainly can't jump a gap as large as the length of the wire. But indeed the resistance of the wires may not be significant. The actual amperage thru the wire is not large, so the IR drop across the wire is probably not very high.

Skin effect is a proven fact. I'm just not sure if the current on spark plug wires is high enough frequency where skin effect comes into play. Basically the spark travels along the outside edge of the coiled wires, where as the resistance measurement is from end to end. Like I said, I'm not sure where the lines cross, but this is what some people say and at least some of it does have evidence supporting it.

I'm more wondering what people's real-world experience with GM wires is, as mine seemed to be pretty good, especially if they 100k on them...

Skin effect is being butchered here. Skin effect is a very high frequency issue where the current tends to flow mostly on a very narrow "skin" on the conductor. So even if it was occcuring in our plug wires it would still be on the CONDUCTOR, not the INSULATING covering around the conductor.

GM wires generally suck, Taylor Spiro-pro wires are much better construction and have provided very good service life to me.

 

[just a 6]

I don't know if this work on a GM vehicle, but Dodge had problem with missfire on there 5.2 and 5.9 V8's cylinder number 6 and 8 (they are on the same side next to each other). The solution on that problem was a TSB from Chrysler saying that we should routh the number 8 plug wire over the valve cover so it would cross number 6 plug wire in a straight angle. It fixed all the missfire we had with Dodge V8's.

My point is that some times crossing the plug wires can be a good idea to cure missfire problems. But like i sad, i don't know if it apply to GM vehicles?

The biggest thing about doing wires is keeping them away form the hot stuff.

That and I try to not let them cross at an angle, try using the snap ring dividers to keep them as parallel as ya can.

 

[InvisiBill]

Re: SP Wires

Re: SP Wires

Skin effect is being butchered here. Skin effect is a very high frequency issue where the current tends to flow mostly on a very narrow "skin" on the conductor. So even if it was occcuring in our plug wires it would still be on the CONDUCTOR, not the INSULATING covering around the conductor.

GM wires generally suck, Taylor Spiro-pro wires are much better construction and have provided very good service life to me.

I understand the basic concept of skin effect, though I don't claim to be an expert. What Magnecore's site says is that the resistance measured end-to-end isn't an accurate representation of how electricity flows in the wire in normal operation. A tech here wasn't even sure that spark plug wires would get into the skin effect range, which would make all this a moot point anyway.

I bought the Sy at 77k, and left those wires on until over 100k, maybe even closer to 110k. Now at 125k, I think my Taylors need to be replaced. If those were the original GM wires, they held up a lot better than this set of Taylors. Even if they were just replaced before I bought the Sy (which I'm pretty sure they weren't), they still held up just as well. I changed the plugs and that didn't help. I'm going to check the cap and rotor, but I think those are newer too.

I don't know if this work on a GM vehicle, but Dodge had problem with missfire on there 5.2 and 5.9 V8's cylinder number 6 and 8 (they are on the same side next to each other). The solution on that problem was a TSB from Chrysler saying that we should routh the number 8 plug wire over the valve cover so it would cross number 6 plug wire in a straight angle. It fixed all the missfire we had with Dodge V8's.

My point is that some times crossing the plug wires can be a good idea to cure missfire problems. But like i sad, i don't know if it apply to GM vehicles?

That's standard electrical stuff. Crossing at 90* is least susceptible to interference. Seems like spark plug wires should be insulated enough that they wouldn't mix like that though... Yay Chrysler!