Help, I have little problem..SOLVED!!!

[Fighting5thSVT]

Ok, so over the course of the past month I have deleted my ABS and EGR (chip was tuned for the EGR last year, I just installed the plate) and replaced my valve seals. I found someone was in this thing before because my exhaust valves on my driver side bank had intake seals on them, however my exhaust valves on the other side had nothing except the tiny O rings on them:screwy:

Anyway, I relashed the valves in exact accordance with the GMC manual- tighten until no longer able to rotate push rods. Then 1 more complete turn of the rocker nut. (Yes my firing positions were correct).

Put it back together and fired it up and it was not happy. It would only crank and made a noise that sounded like the noise a starter makes when you try to start an engine already running. It scared the crap out of me. My only guess was that the rocker nuts were too tight. I had noticed that there seemed to be an extra thread or so exposed when I did it- compared to how I found them prior to starting. I went back in and backed off each rocker arm nut 1/2 turn and reassembled. Then it started but ran rough and idled very fast (about 1500 rpm). Went in a third time and relashed everything from scratch only tightened each rocker nut until the the pushrod stopped spinning and I could just barely wiggle the rocker arm in the valve. Reassembled and it fired right up!

Now the idle is rough. It runs ok, just doesn't feel right. I will be hooking it up to a borrowed code reader, possible compression test and check timimg tonite, I just wanted to throw this up here now...

Any ideas? I've checked all my vacuum connections. I'm hoping I didn't bend a pushrod or F up the valve train in any way...

If anyone has any suggestions, I am all ears...Please!

Thanks

Edit: forgot to mention that the gas in the tank is from mid november and there is about 1/8 tank with no stable. I was planning on droppong the tank this winter and replacing the fuel pump but never got the chance...not sure if the fuel would go bad that quickly.

Also forgot to mention that my #1 cylinder has a garbage off the shelf Autozone brand plug wire now. My good Taylor wire with less than 1000 miles broke removing it and I replaced it with the Autozone one just to get it to run. Not sure if that could be my issue either...

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

What EGR delete did you use? If from RPM then the indented/deep side needs to be facing outwards.

Where did you get the valve seals from and how did you do that? I am curious to know if my valves might be ticking. I'm sure it's a valve and not a lifter now.

 

[jeepruby04]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Just thinking out loud here, the harmonic balancer outer ring could slip and cause the timing mark to be off. I'm assuming that you used the timing mark to set everything.

 

[Fighting5thSVT]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

I bought the EGR plate from a member here last year (cannot remember who off hand)

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As far as the valve seals, I plan on doing a little right up (given my truck runs ok when everything is said and done--I dont want to give out any bad info), but for now-here is a brief summary of what I did. I bought both the exhaust and intake seals from Hood. They are the Viton ones.

1. Expose rocker arms.
2. Remove plug to cylinder you plan on working on. Bring the cylinder to the top of its stroke by hand cranking (this ensures that both valves are closed to work on- plus if you loose shop air, your valve wont fall all the way in)
3. Remove the 2 rocker arms on that cylinder. Make sure you remember which pushrods/arms went where for reassembly.
4. Insert air hose and fill at 80-90psi (this will hold the valves up)
5. Use valve spring compressor to expose the keepers (they may need a little tap with something like a brass rod to knock em loose)

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6. Remove keepers with magnet- then remove spring. This will expose the valve seal

[/IMG]
7. Remove valve seal- it REALLY helps to have the right tool! Install new seal and reverse procedure.

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Thats the short version. Once I figure out what is going on with my truck and I feel confident about everything I did, I will repost all of the above with more pics and advice (and mistakes) that I found and made along the way...I have a TON of pics of what I did if anyone is interested...

 

[Fighting5thSVT]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Just thinking out loud here, the harmonic balancer outer ring could slip and cause the timing mark to be off. I'm assuming that you used the timing mark to set everything.

That had crossed my mind as I was racking my brain on what happened. That is on my checklist of things to trouble shoot. Thank you very much

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

It's not your EGR - that's the piece from SY2932 with the recessed allen heads - very nice it is too!

 

[Fighting5thSVT]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

UPDATE:

Went ahead and rechecked vacuum lines. All good. Checked the codes and found 45 (Exhaust rich code). Went ahead and checked the timing and it was already perfect. After reconnecting the tan wire, I started it up and it seemed to be running better. Cleared the code. So we let the engine warm up for awhile and it seemed to run better as it got hotter. Now it is running pretty much the way it should.

I am guessing that maybe the lifters may have needed to get hot so they were primed and sitting right???? I'm still a little stumped.

It ran untouched for about 10 mins and seemed to fix itself. I am sure the old fuel did not help the situation, so I will be putting some fresh gas in there in the next couple of days. Seems to be good to go now.....

If (big IF) I did everything right, I don't understand how tightening the rocker bolts to the factory GM service manual could be too tight??? Any ideas or feedback would still be very helpful

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

If they were drained of oil and then too tight, perhaps they were overpumped after they got filled with oil?

Glad you fixed it.

 

[Fighting5thSVT]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

I'm not so sure about my post above. But I'll leave it up for now.

I re-read your OP. I'm wondering if you DID get them too tight initially. Looking at this pic, the #1 Intake appears to be much tighter than the exhaust, and both #1 are tighter than the #5 which presumably you haven't touched yet.

I don't know how experienced you are at setting hydraulic lifters, but there is a "touch" to it. I see you did the "rotate the push rod until it stops turning, and add one turn". What they mean, is you rotate the push rod until you feel resistance. That is "zero-lash". You can use what ever method you want to establish "zero lash", but it's important to get this right-on, so your additional 3/4-1 turn puts the plunger in the center of it available travel.

I move the push rod up and down, rather than rotate it to establish zero-lash. Sometimes the push rod will continue to rotate long after zero lash is achieved. Especially with used lifters.You can better feel 'zero' with up and down movement rather than rotation. If you continued to tighten until you couldn't turn the push rod at all, they were too tight.

DaveP

Thanks for the input Dave.

I did tighten them until I felt them become hard to rotate. Of everything I read and researched, none of it involved actually moving the pushrod up and down...everything was based on rotating them. From that point, I went 1 full turn. I know for a fact that you could not rotate any of the pushrods before I slapped the valve covers back on. So yes...they were too tight. I have only done this a few times back in high school and once on my SS back in 96. Maybe I misunderstood the shop manual and the research/reading that I did. Well, lesson learned. I just hope that there is no major damage--which I think I'm good there.

As far as the pic- I had just completed the #1 cylinder and had moved on to the #3, which is what is shown in the pic. I had just tightend them down temporarily. Looking back, I probably should have just done it right then and there, but I was going verbatim by the manual and did them all at once when I was done.....another lesson learned.---ACTUALLY, thinking back, I thought that they were supposed to be torqued to spec and did not have my torque wrench. This was before I realized that I had press in studs and not screw in studs....

Learning as I go...

 

[Fighting5thSVT]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Ok. So we are officially into the "hate" half of the relationship...

Truck is still running terrible. Took it for a half tank of fresh fuel and still no good. Sometime soon I plan on pulling all the pushrods to see if any are bent. Then I will be relashing them the Dave P way

Brainstorming...any chance I could have collapsed one of the lifters turning it over while everything was too tight??

Any other ideas please fire away....

 

[Fighting5thSVT]

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Re: Help, I have little problem...(long)

Thanks for the pep talk Dave. I appreciate it a lot! I will post here whenever I get to it...

Thanks again for the insight- wish me luck. I'm going back in...:crazyeye:

 

[Fighting5thSVT]

Re: Help, I have little problem..SOLVED!!!

Finally got the truck running at it is running better than ever!!!

I could not have done it without Dave P's help and advice. Thanks Dave.

I went back in and checked all of my pushrods. None were bent. Relashed them all for the 4th and final time. I did what Dave said- moved them up and down until there was no more wiggle. I gave them literally an 1/8th turn after that. All of the pushrods were still able to rotate with very slight resistance. It took a little bit to find the right touch...but in the end, the truck is running better than ever.

Not to mention, NO MORE PUFF OF SMOKE on start ups. Yay.

The GM book says 1 full turn...they can pack it:rant:

Cheers Dave (as I chug down a pint of Jack and Coke to celebrate)
:cheers: