Hot Air Project

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Buster

New member
I've almost got the new methanol injection system done, from all the research I've done I've found that it's very possible to get below ambient MATs without an intercooler. The benefits I see to this setup is:

- Ultra high boost on 92
- Below ambient mats
- Much better spool
- No pressure drop
- Less expensive than an intercooler
- I can now close my hood (dequick down fall)
- Looks clean (3" 90 degree piping)

Hopefully this work as planned because I hate the hassles I've had with intercoolers. I'll keep you all up to date. I'm also playing with propane injection, but I'm installing the kit on a buddies truck since propane won't work in a hot air type setup..
 
canadian

canadian

sy in progress
Re: Hot Air Project

Buster said:
but I'm installing the kit on a buddies truck since propane won't work in a hot air type setup..
Click to expand...

how come? i figured you could use it on anything? would not having an i/c provide too high a charge temp for it to work properly?
 
G

Guest

Guest
Bruce posted on the Buick BB about doing the same sorta thing on his GN. He had a couple picks showing the new turbo to TB routing, but had not yet got into testing. It is an interesting idea, and would definately unclutter matters.

Good luck!
 
B

Buster

New member
Re: Hot Air Project

canadian said:
Buster said:
but I'm installing the kit on a buddies truck since propane won't work in a hot air type setup..
Click to expand...

how come? i figured you could use it on anything? would not having an i/c provide too high a charge temp for it to work properly?
Click to expand...

It'll work, but not as an intercooler. From what I understand the vapor draw type propane injection has very little effect on mats. Considering the amount of alky I'm going to be running I shouldn't need anymore octane, otherwise I'd consider running both.
 
B

Buster

New member
Roland Black said:
Bruce posted on the Buick BB about doing the same sorta thing on his GN. He had a couple picks showing the new turbo to TB routing, but had not yet got into testing. It is an interesting idea, and would definately unclutter matters.

Good luck!
Click to expand...

I seen Bruce post, but I'm convinced he's not interested in 1/4 mile performance, otherwise his system seems somewhat pointless, unless I'm misses something which is very possible. From what I understand he's looking for a cool running motor at cruise and idle, he said under boost he'll see 2-400 degree mats which can't be good for drag racing.
 
B

Buster

New member
For those interested, I got part of my system installed, and made a few test passes. So far I'm running two 1mm aquamist nozzles, kicking in at 10 PSI. The plan is to have two kick in at 1-2 PSI and two more in at 12-15 PSI.

Just running the two nozzles I was able to pull 125 degrees out.

First pass WITHOUT alky mats went up 150 degrees from 0-70 MPH.
Second pass WITH alky mats went up 26 degrees from 0-70 MPH, all 26 degrees happened before the alky kicked in.

Spool up is crazy, better than a stocker, from a punch at 25 MPH the truck goes side ways, of course the streets are cold are here in MN, but still it's nuts.

More alky and testing to come...
 
B

Buster

New member
Made a few passes last night. Max boost on 92 octane with 2-1 mm nozzles spraying 100% water was about 20 psi (started to knock a little), then I dumped in 100% methanol & lube, max boost without knock was 25.8 PSI. Mat temps on the 25 PSI run went from 68-140, I'm pretty sure with 2 more nozzles I'll be able to completely control mats, and run 30 PSI. If things keep going this good I'll be recommending a straight pipe and alky for an intercooler. Still need to finish the system and get some datamaster times, but it looks good.
 
B

Buster

New member
Call Brad at George Imports (816-333-6582)

(2-4) 1 mm nozzles $16 each
4 mm line $5
4 mm fitting (screws into pump) $8
2 check valves $12 each
4 mm tee $8
Hobb switch $20-40

Shurflo pump $45?
Rubber hose/stainless fuel filter/brass barb fitting to screw into bottom of washer tank. $20

Total investment around $200. If you run more than two 1mm nozzles you'll need 6mm line and fittings. Just call Brad and you'll be set up.

I've been using Heet, I'm told its 99% pure methanol, and is easy to find. For lube you'll need to use Klotz Uplon.
 
S

Sy#26

New member
What pressure does your ShurFlo pump develop feeding 2 x 1.0mm jets? What ratio of fuel to methanol does that figure to be? Setup I'm using uses a 225psi pump (from Brad) running to an Aquamist 'high Speed' valve (pulses in time w/ injectors) - feeds 2 x 0.8mm jets a 1:1 meth/water mix. Pulsation damper (reservior) & machine tool pressure switch for the pump (integral switch too much hysteresis) - pump ON @ 215psi, OFF @ 225. So far, good for 22psi on 93 pump gas. My ratio of fuel to injected mix is around 4:1, but, based on what you're seeing, I'll try 1:3 water meth. Still using the stock intercooler on mine.

I agree, its a *great* way to get power from 'cheap' gas!
 
B

Buster

New member
Sy#26 said:
What pressure does your ShurFlo pump develop feeding 2 x 1.0mm jets? What ratio of fuel to methanol does that figure to be? Setup I'm using uses a 225psi pump (from Brad) running to an Aquamist 'high Speed' valve (pulses in time w/ injectors) - feeds 2 x 0.8mm jets a 1:1 meth/water mix. Pulsation damper (reservior) & machine tool pressure switch for the pump (integral switch too much hysteresis) - pump ON @ 215psi, OFF @ 225. So far, good for 22psi on 93 pump gas. My ratio of fuel to injected mix is around 4:1, but, based on what you're seeing, I'll try 1:3 water meth. Still using the stock intercooler on mine.

I agree, its a *great* way to get power from 'cheap' gas!
Click to expand...

Actually I'm running the Ford Pump that the Buick guys used to run, I've been told the shurflo is less expensive and works better. Anyways, the Ford pump is rated at like 100 PSI, but I haven't tested it with the two nozzles yet.

My alky/fuel ratio, hummm. I guess it depends on the pressure. I know at 54 PSI the 1 mm jet will flow 335 ml, assuming my pump can put out 100 psi (-) 25 PSI boost (x) 2, that'd be 930 ml or .25 gpm, I'm guessing my fuel consumption is at about .8 gpm, so I'd guess to say about 1/3, maybe less.
 
B

Buster

New member
Here's an interesting chart I pulled off the Aquamist site. Basically it says if you inject enough water or methanol you can get below ambient mats. Kind of a cool thought, show up at nationals on a 90 degree day and have frost forming on the plenum without an intercooler. Now that I let the BIG secret out there will be 100 frosty plenums showing up at nats, hehe.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/rescr/faq/airmass/intercol.GIF

This chart is why I think methanol is the secret, by pulling fuel out of the chip and replancing it with alky, its possible to inject enought to get sub-zero temps, hey we could call it the " bustercooler" J/K....
 
S

Sy#26

New member
For *truly* low MAT temps, might want to chill the methanol with something like this. When I was Aqua-misting, some Brits were using dry ice to chill their injection mix with supposedly very good results. This uses 1/4" copper tube inside 3/8" copper tube - injection mix thru the inner, liquid propane thru the outer. Comes out @ -40°. Untested in the truck at this point, but on the bench, works as advertised.
Chill1.jpg

Chill2.jpg
 
B

Buster

New member
Interesting. Dig mentioned trying dry ice too, maybe I'll pick up a slab and give it a try, I'd like to be able to do without, but I'm always interested in messing around with this stuff.
 
B

Buster

New member
Little update, made a pass today with the 4 1mm nozzles installed, it runs good. Basically I wanted to compare some datamaster times to my 11.0 passes.

I did the kick down at 55 mph and ran it to 115, after comparing my times against my old 11.0 passes, I was suprised to find that it was faster than 4 out of 5, and with less boost and pure 92 octane.

I guess I'm staying intercoolerless forever. If anyone want to see the file let me know. Marklarson007@aol.com
 
B

Buster

New member
Maverick87 said:
what are the part numbers for the hobbs switch and the sureflow pump. I think I can get them through granger

thanks
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I'll check on the hobb switch, no clue on the shurflo, I'm running the ford pump.
 
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