How to keep the "Mutant" running...

[Robert Lone]

I've sent and received many PM's on this subject over the last year. My hat is off to you guys who have answered my DAQ's. :tup: I know alot more now than I did when I bought this POS thanks to you.

However, I would like to throw this subject to the wolves and see what happens.

What does it take to keep my Sy in one piece so I can just drive the damned thing?

CONCERNS

FUEL: I am very worried about my fuel delivery system. Other than a 255 pump (ATR I think) the fuel system is stock as far as I know.

TURBO: The turbo that I had on it smoked (out of the housing) like a frieght train after long runs (around 85-90 mph) on the interstate. It also cooked more than one A/C compressor due to the 1/8" clearance between the ex housing and the compressor. I really like A/C! :tup:


TUNING: I am a fairly skilled mechanic and machinist but computers in cars have me baffled. I don't know how to tune one or where to start. I did however buy a laptop w/ Datamaster on it and just need to get the DM cable to hook it up (I guess that's all I need to make the thing show me data.)

BTW, my computer is stock everything and very confused needless to say. :tdown:

TRANS: No problems at all.


GOALS

HORSEPOWER: Looking for 400 @ the crank, nothing spectacular since it's going to be a daily driver.

RELIABILITY: I want to get 20K+ miles out of it before I have to tear it down to freshen it up. Don't mind doing that at all, but not every couple of months.

COOL FACTOR: Will sacrifice the above to keep the blower. Looks way to cool hangin' out of the hood. :tup:


WHAT I EXPECT IT TO DO

RUN AND DRIVE: That's about it. The truck gets great gas milage (25+) and is a hoot to drive. I just want it to stay together. It is apart right now because it torched a piston...

I'm hoping to get what I need (knowlage & parts) while I'm still deployed so that when I hit the States this fall, I can put it back together. (5 "I"s in that sentence :rotf

Most of the mods that count are listed in my sig...

Thanks in advance for your advice,


Robert :tup:

EDIT: I have searched ALOT and most of what I found either did't really apply to my "wants" or was way over my head...

 

[TurboJunk]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

hey im a new jack with SY/TY's as well but i do have some experience with blower/turbo cars. what about sticking with one at first (turbo or blower) to get all the bugs out and the computer tuned. then putting the other back on and go from there. you want it to be reliable and from what every TUNER on this board says the computer needs to be right for your truck to run safe and stay together.

Fuel system issues are easy they make nice fuel cells with a sump that can go in the place of the stock tank or you can sump the stock one and put a bigger pump if you feel its need or do the double pump in tank.(i personally would use that, Vicious V6 has it and has makes 600+ crank hp i would just upgrade the fuel line).

Computer issues can be solved by the great great guys on this board that could help (waller, phil,JS, Dr. Nolan) tuning a superturbocharged beast would probably be something they would be interested in. AND TUNING IS EVERYTHING
(or go with a stand alone but if your like me u dont want to spend any more money until u get to enjoy it, i have a small bank account so i can only do so much at once)

After reading Jeff Scotts posts about tuning and seeing there new records im really excited about learning how to tune myself and not worried about buying parts anymore just learning about my computer. the parts i already own came with the truck and a few new ones but this year after my PM from Jeff im all about TUNING.....
hey its just an opinion from a young buck with some experience.

 

[Robert Lone]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Thanks for the thoughts Charlie,

Unlike most owners on here, I'm trying to do the unthinkable. De-Tune my truck. I want to turn everything down to a safer level and add some overkill/fudge factor to the ign and fuel systems so the thing won't eat itself again.

No boost launches or racing, just the occasional WOT from 55-100+ to fulfill my querky need to scare the crap out of my self.

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Thanks for the thoughts Charlie,

Unlike most owners on here, I'm trying to do the unthinkable. De-Tune my truck. I want to turn everything down to a safer level and add some overkill/fudge factor to the ign and fuel systems so the thing won't eat itself again.

No boost launches or racing, just the occasional WOT from 55-100+ to fulfill my querky need to scare the crap out of my self.

One way you could add some fudge to the fuel system is by upgrading your injectors ... then you can turn the nase FP down and reduce some strain on the fuel pump.
For the ignition, I might be advocating coil-on-plugs, but I'll have to run my truck to see how good that is (should know monday :tup: )

Glad to see the hair drier is staying :lol:

also, try putting a piece of thin aluminum / steel sheet between the compressor and the turbo... worked on my saab to keep the battery from melting

 

[AUSyTyIN]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

A good tune up is required before any tuning can begin. My advise is meet with a experienced tuner in your area as trying to tell someone how to tune can get lost when posted online. If you do swing up my way, I can help a bit, but there is a guy named Will up here... Or you can run DM on your truck, then post it up here. Won't be as good as having a knowledgable tuner there with you, but it still helps.

Your fuel system requirements will be told when running DM. You will need an AFPR, and changing the old rubber lines and fuel filter never hurts either.


[Side note] I think this is the only time that the three of us (jj, T-56, & me) have ever posted back to back to back while remaining on topic :lol: [/Side note]

 

[Robert Lone]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Or you can run DM on your truck, then post it up here. Won't be as good as having a knowledgable tuner there with you, but it still helps.

I can only imagine what that'll say.

me, "Computer, give me data on what the truck is doing right now and at WOT...please record all data..."

computer displays, "What truck?"

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

I can only imagine what that'll say.

me, "Computer, give me data on what the truck is doing right now and at WOT...please record all data..."

computer displays, "What truck?"

I think you'll just get an avalanche of codes... and then the computer will probably commit suicide.
On a somewhat side note, do you have any idea why it burned the piston? Leaning out, over boost, or what?

I am surprised by this austin ... I almost feel useful

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Most likely since you have a burnt a piston, its running lean (I know that is probably stating the obviously) First thing is to get the truck tuned.


These are my first idea of the top of my head. 400hp is easily doable with a walbro. Do you still have a rising rate fuel regulator? If not you will probably need larger fuel injectors. Do you have a vacuum boost source after the S/C and is it connected to the MAP sensor? Your going to need to completely tune the ECM for part throttle driving first and most the tuner for our truck can get by with just tweaking one of the ultimate programs, but I would expect your truck to be much different VE wise. (not just a WOT dyno like typical industry engine tuner does :roll: ). I also not sure how the boost control will work out with the SC inbetween the turbo and MAP signal, you may want to just do an open loop boost control (ie take out the feedback and ECM compensation)

 

[Robert Lone]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Most likely since you have a burnt a piston, its running lean (I know that is probably stating the obviously) First thing is to get the truck tuned.


These are my first idea of the top of my head. 400hp is easily doable with a walbro. Do you still have a rising rate fuel regulator? If not you will probably need larger fuel injectors. Do you have a vacuum boost source after the S/C and is it connected to the MAP sensor? Your going to need to completely tune the ECM for part throttle driving first and most the tuner for our truck can get by with just tweaking one of the ultimate programs, but I would expect your truck to be much different VE wise. (not just a WOT dyno like typical industry engine tuner does :roll: ). I also not sure how the boost control will work out with the SC inbetween the turbo and MAP signal, you may want to just do an open loop boost control (ie take out the feedback and ECM compensation)

The truck lost an injector at WOT and that torched the piston almost instantly.

I'm not trying to be an ass about this, but I didn't understand anything else you said.

Remember Tom Cruise in Days of Thunder? He didn't have the vocabulary... That's me.

rising rate fuel regulator
I would expect your truck to be much different VE wise
boost control
open loop boost control
take out the feedback and ECM compensation
I got none of that...^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is VERY little that I don't know about the internal workings of a reciprocating engine and how to make HP. However, everything in my brain is for carburated race cars not blownturbochargedfuelinjected pick-ups. I really don't know...

Sorry.

If ignorance is bliss, then I'm one blistered m/f... :tup:

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

the rising rate fuel regulator is a vacuum based pressure regulation valve
VE?
boost control is all about wastegates
Open loop boost control / take out ecm feedback and compenstation would be just straight cuts boost at x psi (regularly, the ECM uses a solenoid to open / close the wastegate)


That said, your truck is going to have a completely different boost map because of the s/c. paticularly towards WOT. the best way to deal with it is probably limit the s/c to say 8 psi and then allow the turbo to build on top of that for on the gas. That way you could easily have 300 - 340 on tap all the time with additional ponies available.
If it threw an injector, definitely get a set of 50# high impedance. Will ease the strain on your fuel pump a lot. Then the 255 will be able to handle 400 eaasy.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

I will quickly explain...

Do you still have a rising rate fuel regulator? If not you will probably need larger fuel injectors.

I have wrote fuel pressure regulator. A rising rate (atleast how I define it) is a fuel pressure regualtor that raise fuel pressure under boost. The higher pressure make you injectors inject more fuel and essentially make them look bigger than they are. Do you have the stock fuel rails? or are mutants? Does it use the stock fuel pressure regulator

Do you have a vacuum boost source after the S/C and is it connected to the MAP sensor?

Ie is your MAP sensor reading (port) the actual boost the engine sees between the SC and intake port of the cylinder head.

Your going to need to completely tune the ECM for part throttle driving first and most the tuner for our truck can get by with just tweaking one of the ultimate programs, but I would expect your truck to be much different VE wise. (not just a WOT dyno like typical industry engine tuner does :roll: ).

I am talking about Volumetric Efficeincy, the ECm has a VE chart where it essential where fuel the engine based on RPM and MAP sensor readings. This goes under advanced tuning for most.

I also not sure how the boost control will work out with the SC inbetween the turbo and MAP signal, you may want to just do an open loop boost control (ie take out the feedback and ECM compensation)

The stock turbo already has poor boost control, I imagine there is a delay induced by the S/C for boost control. Open loop boost control mean the ECM basical bleeds (duty cycle) of so much pressure to the wastegate actuator (Buick GN use this method) for a particular RPM & Throttle Position. In closed loop, the ECM tries to adjust and compensate the duty cycle to adjust the boost (higher or lower) to a target boost level. I was thinking the added SC might be the straw that broke the camel back interms of boost control.

 

[Robert Lone]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

I'm catching on....

It's not so different, just rally big words...you must remember, I went to school in South Carolina...

The blower (I'm told) only produces 6.5 +/- psi anyway. Waller said I will pick up about 1psi w/ the Alky making the teflons inside the S/C seal better. So figure it for 8psi.

Get a set of 50's huh....I guess I shouldn't have bought that extra set of stockers...:shoot:

 

[Robert Lone]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Dave,

Check your e-mail... I didn't want to post something that big on here and screw up the page...

EDIT: Will I be needing a BOV for this truck? (not a Dave specific question)

 

[QUICK STORM]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

BOV would probably be a good idea

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Dave,

Check your e-mail... I didn't want to post something that big on here and screw up the page...

EDIT: Will I be needing a BOV for this truck? (not a Dave specific question)

a BOV will be very useful in your truck, because you're going to get even more pressure surge without the extra plumbing for the intercooler. Also, it will help you to hold boost better over shifts and to protect the turbo during downshifting.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Dave,

Check your e-mail... I didn't want to post something that big on here and screw up the page...

As for the BOV, I don't know. It usually makes sense for Manual Transmission w/turbo's. However, you have a S/C which further complicates the matter. I imagine it will be difficult to add a BOV after the SC, so mostly you will be venting the Turbo. I am not sure if Ford has anything for compressor surge already built into that S/C, either. The Paxton I use to own, came with a surge valve.


BTW I never did receive an email

 

[Robert Lone]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

After much cropping and resizing, here's what I sent you unsuccessfully.

Engine w/ stock non-mutant fuel rails. Look hiding behind the throttleboddy. Is that blue thingy an AFPR?

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Is that blue thingy an AFPR?

Yes. Is there is a fuel rail in that picture?

 

[Robert Lone]

Re: How to keep the "Mutant" running...

Yes. Is there is a fuel rail in that picture?

Me forgets. The rail is sitting in the bed of the truck. The blower is just sitting on the intake w/ a couple of bolts started to get it out of the floor of the shop.