Hvac gurus needed

DaveP

Active member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

You've been struggling with this for two weeks. I can't take it anymore. Too agonizing to watch.

Are you CERTAIN the HVAC vacuum line in the engine compartment is hooked to engine vacuum? In the vacuum diagram Nate posted above, the HVAC line is at the top right. Note it is on the vacuum ball side of the check valve.

This line comes out of the blower wiring harness about 4" from the firewall. This harness comes through the firewall right behind the distributor. If this hard line breaks off flush with the harness, which they do, and you don't know where to find or look for it, you'll never find it. Now that someone has told you where it is, is it hooked to engine vacuum?

Inside the truck: The black vacuum supply line comes into the truck as part of the wiring harness. I may be wrong, but I think that the color of the hose from the controls to the single main-line junction is grey. After the junction, it becomes the black hard plastic. This single-line junction is clear in color, and about 18" in from the control head. There is a multi-pin wiring connection at about the same place, 18" from the controls. There is another mufti-circuit vacuum connection from the controls to the inside vacuum dash-pots. All of these need to be connected, but concentrate on the grey-to-black single line main vacuum source.

I doubt you'd hear a hissing if this junction were open. The "hiss" people are referring to is when you change the mode selector positions. You hear an audible hiss as the vacuum pots release.

You should be able to see the single-line supply junction by looking into the hole behind the controls, knowing that it is there. See if it's hooked up. It probably is. You can probably reach it best by removing the instrument cluster, and perhaps the surround. I'm not sure. It's pretty far back there. I connect all three of the HVAC junctions with the entire Inst Panel still in my lap before putting it up on the hangers.

If you need to get to this junction, post back, and I'll tell you the best way to tilt the IP backwards away from the base of the windshield, and you can reach the junction over the front edge of the IP. Shouldn't take more than 45 minutes to do the whole thing. But you have to know the tricks.

I think you've missed the vacuum connection in the engine compartment. 4" from the firewall, 3/32" black hard plastic line. Has a rubber molded-on elbow on the end. If it isn't there, cut the harness open and find it. Because that's your problem.

Pleas post what you finally find was wrong. This info should help.
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

Here's a pic of the connections behind the IP. They are closer to the firewall than I remembered. You probably can't access them without tilting the IP forward, like has been done in this pic. The red arrow is pointing to the single-line vacuum source. Note the black/grey color, and the clear connector. The green arrow is to the blower harness connector. "Click the white bar" at the top of the pic for a bigger, clearer image.

I still don't think think the problem is inside the cab. Its at the engine. You can remove the vacuum block off the rear of the controls. With the engine running, there should be vacuum on the blk/gry line.


 

Brassmonkey

Cruzin' Mel Man
Re: Hvac gurus needed

I would START at the vacuum fitting closest to the source of vacuum (meaning engine), confirming you do have vacuum, then move along the vacuum hose until the next fitting and confirming you still have vacuum AFTER each fitting/check valve. I have bought t-fittings and check valves that were clogged, so no vacuum was allowed to pass.
 

dgoodhue

BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Hvac gurus needed

One thing I would suggest before partially removing the dash is using a vacuum pump such as a mitivac to pull a vaccum at the firewall vacuum line going to interior. You can test the heard control this way.

I pulled the dash down to check the interior vacuum lines to find out I had a cracked vacuum ball. I have seen the EGR valve solenoid vacuum line falling off affect the heater operation as well.
 

gstacky

Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

I still agree with Dave, that your problem will be the line under the hood. If you need pics of anything let me know, I have my IP sitting out on a bench, but plan on putting it in the truck today. LMK
 

The Dread Pirate Fisher

Donating Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

It's taken me this long because I never get a chance to work on it, and when I do, the pager goes off and I'm called in to work.

Anyway, Dave P, thank you for the posts/comments. I do know where the hard line in the engine bay is. Still has it ms 90* rubber elbow on. I have the lines hooked up exactly how the diagram says. I even started the engine, and then pulled off each line in the bay to make sure it's pulling vacuum towards the engine.

I pulled the hard HVAC line at the T fitting to make sure that the line is seeing vacuum.

The issue is, it's getting vacuum but somewhere AFTER the fire wall, it's loosing it.

I do have a mightyvac and I'm now going to go outside and see if I can hook it up to the engine bay HVac hard line and see if it will hold vacuum, doubt it will since the engine is already pulling it.

That's why I've been trying to get to the back of the dash to see if there is a leak or a just unconnected somewhere.

My EGR is still on and hooked to vacuum even though my TurboTweak chip has eliminated it in the tune. I'm going to eliminate the EGR and vacuum lines to it.

I have also replaced the vacuum ball with a real AC/Delco one and new hose to it. I have checked and rechecked the check valves and both are pulling towards to the engine and appear to be functioning correctly.

I'll report back once I do this.
 

gstacky

Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

The black line comes into the truck behind the ducting and comes out to the right of the steering column. You have to pull the column to access it, and you will see a connection with a bunch of coloured lines, from here the feed line goes to the selector and the other lines go to each actuator, so you may be able to access it without removing the dash.
 

The Dread Pirate Fisher

Donating Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

So just dropping the column and not necessarily completely removing it right?

So I have ruled out leaks from the manifold, there is now only 1 line pulling vacuum to the HVAC black hardline and the check valve is good. I disconnected the line to the cruise control too.

I hooked up my mighty vac directly to the hvac bay line after the check valve, won't pull vacuum, tried it in all selections off the hvac selector including the OFF position, nothing.

So I'm pretty sure it's somewhere inside the dash, I'm going to remove the gauge cluster and bezel next to get more access to the back of the selector.

I also searched online for a while and found this vacuum diagram if anyone in the future needs it
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    33.9 KB · Views: 1

gstacky

Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

Before you start pulling the cluster, and if you're sure under the hood is fine, I would just pull the whole IP out. It's a lot easier than getting that cluster and HVAC in and out. There is a good write up on here how to do it, should take no more than an hour to have the whole thing out. If you have any questions let me know.
 

Brassmonkey

Cruzin' Mel Man
Re: Hvac gurus needed

If you have to pull the dash, go to a pull-it salvage yard and practice first on an S10/15/etc, it will save you a lot of headaches later.
 

The Dread Pirate Fisher

Donating Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

Don't really have time to practice, let alone get this done.

Ok so I got the hvac control panel out, from what I can see all the hoses were on and looked fine down to the connector.

Next I took the mighty vac to each of the control diaphragms to make sure they didn't leak, all held vacuum fine.

I cut part of the engine HVAC harness to see if that plastic line was cracked, couldn't see anything wrong.

So, looks like my last and final choice is to pull the dash. REALLY DONT WANT TO DO THIS. Looks like it's my only option at this point. I thought also about trying to smoke it, but not sure how to go about it.

Lastly, the oh thing left to change on the HVAC panel is this. Ebay# 131127942408

Do these go bad? Since it's out should I change it?
 

The Dread Pirate Fisher

Donating Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

Ok guys, progress, I pulled the dash part way down, found the hard line between the fire wall. I unplugged the dash side, and capped it, went to the engine side and put the mighty vac on to test the hard line for leaks/cracks. Held fine at 20psi. So the hard line is fine.

However I plugged the end of the gray hose near the hvac control, pulled vacuum from the hard line engine bay side, pumped up to 20psi very quick leak.

Upon pouring over the line carefully, I found that at the hardline to gray line clear connection, there were a few hair line cracks in the rubber and the hard connector that goes between then to connect them both, also leaked.

I pulled vacuum on all the other colored tubes, all held vacuum fine.

Now to figure how to replace that clear connector tube that houses the gray line. Any ideas?
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

Measure the OD of the hard line. It is either 3/32nds, or 1/8". Get a section of vacuum hose of a diameter that affoards a good fit, but doesn't 'stretch' the hose too much, or it will just crack in time.. Put this hose on the bare end of the hard line. At the control valve, cut away the section of the clear connector block where the grey soft line is, so that the nipple of the valve is unobstructed. Put the new hose directly on the back of the valve.

In other words, completely bypass the grey soft line, and all the connectors.
 

The Dread Pirate Fisher

Donating Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

Ok guys solved the line connection issue, but then I still wasn't getting it to work. I returned my attention to the hvac control. I noticed the selector gear is fairly loose and not tight like my previous typhoon. Upon further inspection really closely, I decided to mighty vac on the prongs, capping each station to search for it to hold vacuum.

Well my suspicion was right from a previous post. The actual vacuum selector gear was broken.

There is a little silver star retainer on the front that applied pressure to hold in vacuum as the selector rotates the gear around. If there is not enough pressure or the clip is broken, it leaks vacuum. It's held in place with a push lock plastic holder with 2 prongs. I noticed the tollerance between the 2 halves was loose and therefore wouldn't hold sufficient pressure to keep the vacuum in. I removed the 2 holding 1/4" holding screws and sure enough, pieces of the holding clip fell out.

See pictures
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    30.8 KB · Views: 0

The Dread Pirate Fisher

Donating Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

One more picture, I just ordered a replacement eBay item # 131127942408

Or part number:
Brand :Omega 29-30072
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    30.4 KB · Views: 0

BowTy

New member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

DPF, great job, glad you found it! Tons of good reference info from all contributors, that will really help others searching with a common problem later, I even printed out the diagrams for my future reference!

Only wanted to ask, how many miles on the truck? Owners with higher mileage will be wanting to have this as a reference (assuming the part was not fairly new but bad) as to when to expect they might need to check this and the other suggestions posted.

When I had my dash off in 96, I replaced all my lines with silicone (those I could) just as a preventative measure, did not have digital cameras back then to record my work :lol:.

Again, glad you found enough spare time to tackle this big job, and have the results you wanted, now go and enjoy that beast!
 

The Dread Pirate Fisher

Donating Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

Current mileage is 133,002. However i bought the truck with 131,988 miles on it, and this was an issue before. So not 100% sure on when these 2 things would have went bad. I'm still waiting on the selector gear part to get here, looks like it's coming on Friday. I got the dash back on yesterday, so I'm just waiting to complete it.
 

BowTy

New member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

That at least gives an idea. Would imagine sooner in southern climates the rubber drying out and cracking. More so too when, as others have said, someone gets into that area of the heater controller and disturbs thing too often, been there are few more times that I have wanted, can be delicate to work on. Opportunity as well while in there, to note anything else a miss, getting close to being a problem, and checking if the thick wiring harness that goes over the steering column support at the firewall is attached and not laying on the support rubbing against the sharp edges of the stamp steel, mine was back in 96.
 

Tony Dipatri

New member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

I changed this part also and still no vents. I do hear the Hiss when I change from floor to vents. I am thinking the switch I bought is defective because the old switch worked intermittently. I am picking the POS up from storage to look at it again.


Ok guys solved the line connection issue, but then I still wasn't getting it to work. I returned my attention to the hvac control. I noticed the selector gear is fairly loose and not tight like my previous typhoon. Upon further inspection really closely, I decided to mighty vac on the prongs, capping each station to search for it to hold vacuum.

Well my suspicion was right from a previous post. The actual vacuum selector gear was broken.

There is a little silver star retainer on the front that applied pressure to hold in vacuum as the selector rotates the gear around. If there is not enough pressure or the clip is broken, it leaks vacuum. It's held in place with a push lock plastic holder with 2 prongs. I noticed the tollerance between the 2 halves was loose and therefore wouldn't hold sufficient pressure to keep the vacuum in. I removed the 2 holding 1/4" holding screws and sure enough, pieces of the holding clip fell out.

See pictures
 

The Dread Pirate Fisher

Donating Member
Re: Hvac gurus needed

Just a quick update, I got the part. And to my surprise/luck they sent me an AC Delco part

Part numbers on the box are
ACD# 15-71489
GM # 16047875

I'm going outside now to install it, I still need to recharge the AC since it never had anything in it. But I should be able to work all the vacuum stations
 
Top