I Give Up.

[Dr.Evil]

:rant: Im sick of trying to figure out what is wrong with this thing. I mean I lost to a stock JETTA VR6! I have replaced or checked all vital functions of the motor and have not accomplished anything except depleting my bank account. It runs just the same as it did before I started messing with it.

What am I missing? here's the fixed/checked/replaced list

All IC lines replaced and flow is good w/ high flow pump.

All vac lines have been replaced with silicone lines, but for some reason I am only getting 15" vac at idle...

TPS, O2, ECT, Thermostat and ACT are new.

Cleaned and port matched upper/lower intake with new gasket.

Cleaned TB w/ new gasket

High-flow cat into 3" pipe w/ turndown before rear axle

42 PSI idle fuel pressure. Fuel pump sounds fine when running.

new 30# accel injectors

New cap/rotor/wires (black beauties)/Plugs (UR5's) and coil (MSD)

15 PSI boost under WOT

Stock ECU with no chip.

Verified 2Bar MAP sensor

Set timing to 0* with the brown/black wire unplugged

Checked and verified good compression (140+ throughout)

*Cliffnotes version*
Its not the ignition, fuel, intake, exhaust or compression.

What is left?

 

[Tydriver]

Re: I Give Up.

1994 Phantom Grey Typhoon #0571

I'd say whats left is posting pics of your '94 Typhoon... Since there weren't any made in '94..


option #2... Get with a local and have someone else take a look at it..2 brains are always better than one... (well depending on who you have as the #2 brain that is)......

 

[timgt]

Re: I Give Up.

Does datamaster show knock? My truck is a dog too but I see it pulling ALOT of timing from my truck because of a false knock.

 

[Divergent Lightning]

Re: I Give Up.

It could be that you just have one of the trucks that are on the weaker side of the curve. Depending on how abused it was with it's previous owners is how much spunk it has left in it. Don't get discouraged, i am sure a good custom tune will fix things just fine.

 

[Dr.Evil]

Re: I Give Up.

Well, looking at your list, a few possible gaps come to mind. You have checked/set fuel pressure at idle, but have you monitored it (or O2 volts or knock retard) at WOT? I did not see an answer to the datamaster question on your other thread. For the cost of the parts you bought, you could have bought an AutoXray at the very least. Your problem could be as simple as a clogged fuel filter. Did not see that or a hi-flow fuel pump on the list, so seems like going lean at WOT is still a distinct possibility.

Also, with all the sensors, etc you replaced and fuel pressure and timing changes, did you disconnect the battery to reset BLM afterwards? Then there's the ignition module... but I'm not suggesting you throw any money that way without hooking up a scan tool first.

I don't have datamaster. I don't know where to get the cable locally. Is this the only way to know if the pressure is dropping at WOT?

I have a high-flow pump and harness, but the plugs in the harness do not match up with those on my 255 walbro? whats the deal with that? I thought it was PNP without having to make up my own connectors to adapt it?

I forgot to add above, the fuel filter was one of the first things replaced.

What is the BLM?

 

[Mad Mike]

Re: I Give Up.

I don't have datamaster. I don't know where to get the cable locally. Is this the only way to know if the pressure is dropping at WOT?

I have a high-flow pump and harness, but the plugs in the harness do not match up with those on my 255 walbro? whats the deal with that? I thought it was PNP without having to make up my own connectors to adapt it?

I forgot to add above, the fuel filter was one of the first things replaced.

What is the BLM?

You need to verify by datamaster/diacom whatever on how your truck is running before racing. If your having tons of knock or your FP is dropping at WOT your causing more damage. Get it running right then have fun.

 

[odium]

Re: I Give Up.

I know you have already said that your timing has been set to 0*, but I can't stress the fact that you need to ensure this with a TDC check and not to rely on your harmonic balancer. I had strugged with the same problems you are having and the harmonic balancer had slipped, giving me crazy timing....

Next, get datamaster and see what the hell is going on! These trucks are hard to impossible to tune "hotrod style."

 

[Dr.Evil]

Re: I Give Up.

Im in sparks, NV

I just gave a fellow sy/ty owner a call and we are going to hook up a scan tool to it and hopefully figure it out.

Where is the ECM-B fuse?

So to do the TDC check, the piston should be at TDC with the the mark on the ballancer should be lined up with 0, right?

 

[Ian Turgeon]

Re: I Give Up.

the ballancer can spin on the crank there, so its possible the marks are worthless.

BLM = block learn multiplier

 

[syntax]

Re: I Give Up.

You need to mechanically check the timing with a piston stop, the original marks mean bumpkiss after 13 years and you may think your timing is correct but it could easily be 20 degrees off.

 

[supersports10]

Re: I Give Up.

"new 30# accel injectors"

bingo!! stock is 33lb an hour, i know its just 3 lbs, but it can make a huge difference.

plus if you didnt buy the high impediance injectors, and got the low impedance ones, that is definatly your problem!!

SS

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: I Give Up.

I had my stocker sent out to be cleaned and flow tested they were 30 lb/hr (I think the actual number were 30.1-30.2). Some injectors aren't that linear in their flow rates, so that could be an issue, but the ECM should bve able to compensate to a degree.

 

[supersports10]

Re: I Give Up.

Yes But Did You Get High Impedance, Or Low Impediance????

BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: I Give Up.

I can pretty much guarenty those Accell 30# injectors are going to high impedance injectors like the stock ones. I am not aware of many injectors smaller the 50# /hr that are low impedance. Accell sells a lot of injectors to fit Ford and GM efi's.

 

[Dr.Evil]

Re: I Give Up.

I can pretty much guarenty those Accell 30# injectors are going to high impedance injectors like the stock ones. I am not aware of many injectors smaller the 50# /hr that are low impedance. Accell sells a lot of injectors to fit Ford and GM efi's.

They are high impedance, listed in the accel catalog as OEM replacements for SY/TY's and say that right on the box.

What is a good way to check the piston TDC? Is there an actual tool for this?

FWIW the truck does not run as well at an indicated 0* than it did at an advance of 10*...humm

 

[Crimson93Ty]

Re: I Give Up.

You can make a TDC tool from one of your old spark plugs like this guy did:
http://www.scooterhelp.com/tips/timing/timing.tools.html

This might sound kind dumb, but I've read where a distributer was replaced under warranty. The dealership put the distributer in 180 degrees off. Instead of pulling it and replacing it correctly, they f@#%ed with the wires until they got it to run correctly. The first time the owner did his own plug wire change with the help of the guys and the Helms book, it ran like CRAP. Took a long time before they figured it out.

 

[odium]

Re: I Give Up.

Prep work:
1) Remove fan shrowd in order to access alternator pulley bolt.
2) Find wrench that will fit the alternator pulley.
3) Try to crank the motor over by rotating alternator pulley bolt.

Finding approximate TDC:
1) Crank the motor until you feel compression with your finger in #1.
2) Put straw in the hole and try to get a feel for the top of the piston.
3) MANUALLY crank motor over by turning alternator pulley bolt.
4) The straw should go out and then back in; do this until you are sure you have it at the peak of it's travel.
5) Mark the approximate TDC on your harmonic balancer and time it immediately. NOTE: This mark will never be accurate again if your harmonic balancer slips more.

Finding exact TDC:
1) Crank the motor until you feel compression with your finger in #1.
2) Put a flathead screwdriver or expensive, overpriced speciatly product in the spark plug hole.
3) MANUALLY crank motor over by turning alternator pulley bolt until you feel slight pressure on the product of choice (screwdriver, overpriced specialty product).
4) Make a mark with whiteout on the harmonic balancer.
5) Take screwdriver out and go past where you think the piston is on it's way back down again.
6) Put product of choice back in the spark plug hole.
7) MANUALLY crank motor the opposite way back up until you feel pressure on the product of choice (screwdriver, overpriced specialty product).
8) Make a mark with whiteout on the harmonic balancer.
9) Make a mark half way between both marks to find true TDC. Mark true TDC on your harmonic balancer and time it immediately. NOTE: This mark will never be accurate again if your harmonic balancer slips more.

 

[#2875]

Re: I Give Up.

i replaced my bran-spankin' new black beauties with msds and it helped a lot. i didn't see where you replaced the ignition module but they're cheap (around $30 i think) and you can change it out in about 10 minutes hood open to close. of course with all the money you spent on sensors you could have just bought a scan tool to rule them all out as possible problems but i'm sure you already realize that. a scan tool should be the very first #1 mod imo.

my tdc checker was $5... well worth the time i would have spent making one and/or dicking with a screwdriver. also, next time you have your cap off check to see how much vertical play is in your distributor shaft, try to borrow a dial indicator. i had to shim mine a bit, this also helped.

 

[bezerk]

Re: I Give Up.

you already have made another post, and in know your situation is freaking you out.

Get Datamaster.
the problems you discribe could be alot of things, no need to change all your sensors if you don;t know what your ECM is doing.
PPItyphoon has them for sale for cheap.
buy it, and post a datamaster file if you don't want to geuss

 

[Dr.Evil]

Re: I Give Up.

I just checked for TDC and it looks to be spot-on.

This doesn't explain why it runs better at 10* advanced than the factory 0*...?