IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

[TGO]

Got my electrical problem solved and now I'm trying to plumb the stock upper and lower IC with the ATR aux intercooler.

I have a johnson pump mounted in the stock location.

I have the return line from the upper IC core ran through the passenger fender, under the battery and in to the pump as it should be.

My issue is the output on the drivers side of the lower IC. There's no way to connect it to the inlet on the ATR intercooler which is directly above it but in front of the radiator. There's not enough space to run the hose straight up from the upper outlet of the lower IC and in to the ATR. The hose just gets pinched between the IC housing and the bottom of the core support. The bend is too tight as well. I tried aiming it down but again there is not enough room to get past the sway bar without pinching the hose. Plus then there's no way to get the hose back up and around to the front of the car either. Side exit is not possible. The holes are not in the same places as on the passenger side. My only option is to go straight up in to the engine bay but then I would have to use a few couplings to bring the hose back down through a hole in the core support and in to the inlet of the ATR. I'd have to run the hose up, then down, then back up. This seems stupid in my mind.

The only thing I can think of that will work is to say screw the hose routing instructions for the ATR and run the output from the lower IC at a downward angle towards where the pump is and snake it through there using the same path as the other hose. I can then go straight up in to the ATR aux cooler and then on the drivers side make a 90 degree elbow and run that hose behind the bumper and up in to the fender all the way back up to the top hole of the upper IC.

I thought about cutting on the lower IC housing to give more space between it and the bottom of the core support but I'm not sure it will be enough and I think the bend will still be too tight and the hose will kink anyway. Only other option is to cut the core support which I DO NOT want to do. Or just say screw it and not hook the thing up at all.

Is anyone running one of these aux coolers on their car and can give me some insight on the hose routing? Because I just can't come up with a plan to follow the routing as explained in the instructions here:

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?53183-Atr-Aux-intercooler-instructions

I don't really see what difference what side of the aux cooler is in or out.

I'd prefer to have the output of the lower IC go straight up since running a hose back down seems less efficient and I'm thinking it might make it hard to get all the air out but I don't see any other way except making holes. I can't find any other threads explaining the procedure and the few that mention it have picture links that are long since dead.

Sigh....

 

[Don W.]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

:2cents:"Stock" plumbing on the lower IC is lower pas side into the pump then up to the upper then from the upper back to the upper drivers side of the lower. Personally I think that the upper in the drawing is backwards. I use the lower fitting of the upper as the inlet but for you that could be an issue on initial fill. All that being said, without removing my bumper to see what space might be used I'm not much help. As you mention, having loops (IE up and back down to get over/around something) can be a problem because of trapped air. In the link the photos are unreadable so no help there. Mounting a centrifugal pump that is not at, or very close to, the low pint in the system is a potential problem only because if ANY air is in the system it will loose its prime. The instructions say to mount the pump on the fender well. You say you have it in the stock location at the base of the lower IC. I like your location better. A centrifugal pump is fairly good at pushing, lousy at sucking. So in theory at least "pushing" coolant through a loop would work. So anyway all my :2cents:. Hope it helps a bit.

 

[TGO]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

:2cents:"Stock" plumbing on the lower IC is lower pas side into the pump then up to the upper then from the upper back to the upper drivers side of the lower. Personally I think that the upper in the drawing is backwards. I use the lower fitting of the upper as the inlet but for you that could be an issue on initial fill. All that being said, without removing my bumper to see what space might be used I'm not much help. As you mention, having loops (IE up and back down to get over/around something) can be a problem because of trapped air. In the link the photos are unreadable so no help there. Mounting a centrifugal pump that is not at, or very close to, the low pint in the system is a potential problem only because if ANY air is in the system it will loose its prime. The instructions say to mount the pump on the fender well. You say you have it in the stock location at the base of the lower IC. I like your location better. A centrifugal pump is fairly good at pushing, lousy at sucking. So in theory at least "pushing" coolant through a loop would work. So anyway all my :2cents:. Hope it helps a bit.

I'm not using the pump in the instructions. I'm using a Johnson pump in the stock location. It's there because that's the only way I can have the outlet of the pump pointing up like the instructions for the pump say. I just posted that link for reference.

Also I know the routing of the stock system. I'm trying to maintain that as best as possible but it's just not gonna work the way I want it to with this aux cooler in place. So it's looking like I'm either gonna have to say screw it and do what will fit or cut the car or say screw it and don't hook it up at all.

Just hoping someone here has a similar set up and can give some insight but it's not looking that way lol

 

[Don W.]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

I can understand. On my setup I have both hoses coming up between the frame, fan shroud, and steering gear. I suppose if you routed that direction you could drill a couple of holes in the rad mount to get over and back to the aux IC.

 

[TGO]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

That's actually not a bad idea. There's room below the mount for (what looks like) the charcoal canister bolt.

I have to get a good hole saw bit now though lol

 

[TGO]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

I can understand. On my setup I have both hoses coming up between the frame, fan shroud, and steering gear. I suppose if you routed that direction you could drill a couple of holes in the rad mount to get over and back to the aux IC.

Ok, so I drilled the hole and routed all the hoses. Filled the system and I have air.

When I initially filled it I did it with the upper IC unbolted. I filled that, then held it up in the air until all the coolant bled down in to the rest of the system and repeated until it stopped draining and gurgling.

I also ran the pump with the IC like that and then I put it down on top of the intake (so it was still tilted back) and no problems. I could see coolant circulating nicely.

Once I put the upper IC back where it belongs, I have air in the system. I can see lots of tiny bubbles and the fluid is moving but not go great.

This is how I have the hoses routed in the engine bay:






I'm guessing it has to do with the 90's at the back of the upper IC basically pointing straight up. But, this is the only way I could go to still use the AUX IC. Lower hose goes down to the pump intake. Output goes into the lower hole on the lower IC. Upper hole comes up through the engine bay past the steering pump where I drilled a hole in the rad support and then in to the AUX IC and then exits on the passenger side and goes back in to the fender with the other hose and back up to the upper hole on the upper IC.

I don't have any more time to mess with it today. I think I may try removing two of the 3 bolts on the upper IC so I can tilt it back and see if I can burp it that way.

I tried running the hoses in front of the heater box but also under the AC lines but the turns are too tight and the hoses get kinked. So that's why they are over the top.

No kinks and no leaks anywhere else I could see.

Funny...before I bolted the upper IC back I thought to myself "this was too easy." Guess I was right lol

 

[Don W.]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

IMHO Your problem is with your pump routing. The pump needs to see clear water (water with no air in it). Reverse the lines at the pump so it is pulling from the lower IC., pushes through the aux IC then to the upper IC, then back to the lower IC. This way the lower IC is kept full by the upper then the pump can push the air through the aux and into the upper IC. You might have to hold the upper IC up in the air so that it is the high point in the system until you get ALL the air out. Because the aux IX forms its own separate high spot so-to-speak you have push water through it -not- suck. IMO the aux lines should be at the top but that might make an issue somewhere else.

Even the little high spot in your hose at the back of the upper IC will prevent the pump from getting its prime. In theory once ALL the air is out it should work but the slightest bit of air can screw things up. The pump really should see some "head," IE positive pressure at the inlet.

HTH

 

[0966Sy]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

Do you have the pump wired backwards moving the coolant in the wrong direction?

 

[TGO]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

IMHO Your problem is with your pump routing. The pump needs to see clear water (water with no air in it). Reverse the lines at the pump so it is pulling from the lower IC., pushes through the aux IC then to the upper IC, then back to the lower IC. This way the lower IC is kept full by the upper then the pump can push the air through the aux and into the upper IC. You might have to hold the upper IC up in the air so that it is the high point in the system until you get ALL the air out. Because the aux IX forms its own separate high spot so-to-speak you have push water through it -not- suck. IMO the aux lines should be at the top but that might make an issue somewhere else.

Even the little high spot in your hose at the back of the upper IC will prevent the pump from getting its prime. In theory once ALL the air is out it should work but the slightest bit of air can screw things up. The pump really should see some "head," IE positive pressure at the inlet.

HTH

Hmm...I see your point.

Sadly this means scrapping most if not all of the plumbing I've already done.

I will try to see if I can get the rest of the air out by tilting the upper IC and also fill the upper IC as much as I possibly can and also try and get the lower hose in the pics (which is what feeds the pump) at a better angle. I hope as long as it's not pointed up that should provide some pressure even if not ideal. Right now it is set up so that the pump pulls from the lower port on the upper IC but after that it's all push out of the lower IC, in to the AUX and out to the top port of the upper IC. Basically stock routing as far as I can tell just with the AUX in the loop.

If not then I guess I have no choice but to switch things the way you recommend.

 

[TGO]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

Do you have the pump wired backwards moving the coolant in the wrong direction?

I don't think so.

The truck came with a dead shurflo which had an OEM style connector on it. I clipped it and attached it to the wires on the new Johnson pump (red/red, black/black) - only to find that when plugged in to the wiring harness on the vehicle that the polarity was reversed (orange/black - red/black) so I reversed the connector so that it's now orange/red, black/black.

 

[Don W.]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

In part that's why I suggested routing the hoses on the drivers side. No elbows. In my entire system, remember no aux IC, there are only two elbows. One where the pump inlet connects to the lower fitting on the lower IC and one at the upper fitting on the upper IC.

Hope you get it working.

 

[TGO]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

In part that's why I suggested routing the hoses on the drivers side. No elbows. In my entire system, remember no aux IC, there are only two elbows. One where the pump inlet connects to the lower fitting on the lower IC and one at the upper fitting on the upper IC.

Hope you get it working.

I know. If I didn't have the AUX IC I would have done it on the drivers side. I figured that would be a worthwhile and desirable upgrade for a potential buyer and here we are lol

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

Ok, so I drilled the hole and routed all the hoses. Filled the system and I have air.

When I initially filled it I did it with the upper IC unbolted. I filled that, then held it up in the air until all the coolant bled down in to the rest of the system and repeated until it stopped draining and gurgling.

I also ran the pump with the IC like that and then I put it down on top of the intake (so it was still tilted back) and no problems. I could see coolant circulating nicely.

Once I put the upper IC back where it belongs, I have air in the system. I can see lots of tiny bubbles and the fluid is moving but not go great.

This is how I have the hoses routed in the engine bay:






I'm guessing it has to do with the 90's at the back of the upper IC basically pointing straight up. But, this is the only way I could go to still use the AUX IC. Lower hose goes down to the pump intake. Output goes into the lower hole on the lower IC. Upper hole comes up through the engine bay past the steering pump where I drilled a hole in the rad support and then in to the AUX IC and then exits on the passenger side and goes back in to the fender with the other hose and back up to the upper hole on the upper IC.

I don't have any more time to mess with it today. I think I may try removing two of the 3 bolts on the upper IC so I can tilt it back and see if I can burp it that way.

I tried running the hoses in front of the heater box but also under the AC lines but the turns are too tight and the hoses get kinked. So that's why they are over the top.

No kinks and no leaks anywhere else I could see.

Funny...before I bolted the upper IC back I thought to myself "this was too easy." Guess I was right lol

You can try using these "elbows"... factory part for the supercharged Cobalt....

 

[TGO]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

Thanks guys. I think I got it.

I angled the lower hose down a little bit for a smoother transition. I also held the upper IC up in the air at an angle to let the air out again and filled it little by little until it was just spilling over a little bit and put the cap back on before I let it down. Seems like maybe the few ounces it took made all the difference. Can't hear the pump change tone anymore when it loses it's prime like before. With my IR thermometer the engine block is about 170 degrees and the intercooler is 104. I think that's satisfactory.

 

[Don W.]

Re: IC and AUX intercooler hose routing

Nice! Glad you got it going.