IC temps on run

[carVSsuv]

Ok, I have searched and there really isnt a clear answer so I have to ask..

I have had the stock heat exchanger and an ATR aux cooler on my truck with a surflo for a while. I can get good flow in the IC and it stays full. When I am cruising around in 85-95 degree weather my IAT's read 105-115. My question now which I cant seem to find a clear answer on is.. Once I go for a 100MPH pull on stock boost the temps increase to around 150 by the end of the run. What temps do people see??????

I have no EGR hooked up FYI.

I was troubleshoot the system like this

I pulled wanted to do a flow test thru the system. I bypass the pump with the hose and used the other line to drain the system as a flush. I hooked up tunring it on to a high flow setting. I saw that I was vent water into the overflow with an open ended system..HMM.. So knowing that the trucks lower is just old and probably crap. I bypassed it in the setup and now I had no pressure build up and got very good flow.

So I decided to leave it bypassed and do a pass with it that way.. Temps would all do the same. I see people say that their temps do climb above 120 but I guess I dont understand this. Mine dont either if I just do a short burst.. But when its a full 1/4 pull (simulated) it climbs fast but comes back down to normal range very quickly (if that is considered normal)

Any advice would be appreciated. I know the air in the system is going to come up. But lets just pretend that is being dealt with for addition advice.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: IC temps on run

At the track mine would raise about 40 degree through the 1/4 mile. On a 70 degree day, the IC temps might start at 80 degree and end up up at 120 degree. Chip turn on the IC pump, Stock IC, 3/4 Rubber hose, ATR Aux and Jabsco pump with the system flow properly. I had a little problem getting the ATR Aux IC air pockets out, I ended up using a mechanical vacuum to pull it through.

 

[carVSsuv]

Re: IC temps on run

At the track mine would raise about 40 degree through the 1/4 mile. On a 70 degree day, the IC temps might start at 80 degree and end up up at 120 degree. Chip turn on the IC pump, Stock IC, 3/4 Rubber hose, ATR Aux and Jabsco pump with the system flow properly. I had a little problem getting the ATR Aux IC air pockets out, I ended up using a mechanical vacuum to pull it through.

Thanks you for that.. Thats pretty much what I am seeing now and thats almost the same setup that I have.

The behavior you're witnessing is what the original development engineers intended.
It's in the SAE White Paper on the development of the Syclone engine. Emphasis mine:

DESIGN CRITERION - Design criterion for an intercooler for a street driven vehicle are considerably different from those which might be developed for a racing vehicle or a heavy duty truck engine. In the street vehicle, sustained operation at high boost levels, is normally not possible due to society imposed driving limitations. Consequently, the intercooler does not require the capability to stabilize the compressor outlet air temperature at high levels of boost. The primary function is to provide enough system thermal inertia to lower the temperature of the inlet charge in 15 second blasts. Recovery time of the system heat exchanger temperature can be over a period of minutes. These goals established minimum size and heat transfer capacity of the system.​

Dave you are awesome! I guess my next upgrade will be meth/water injection. Is there any cooling setups that will keep the temps down without meth. I have read and spoke to tom at sportmachines and also seen it a lot on here that stock setup is good for a long while granted everything is functioning right. Many people go A2A and say their temps are lower at the end of the run with no meth. I guess what I am getting at, I am going to fix this IC system and waiting on sportmachines IC setup to complete its GP so I can get a better bottom that I know is not junk inside. But the price of that is about half the price of an A2A. Now running a new pump and a fan on it as well just increases the cost closer to A2A. I am not trying to turn this into a A2A is better than W2A or vis versa but the technical side of me is curious to numbers that go along with this as in Datamaster comparison and such. I dont track this truck and since its very rare to get into a race where I live. I really just want a reliable setup with great function. I daily drive this truck since I got it.. Actually parked my STI becaues I found the truck much more comforitable to ride in and my data master tells me to this day that its in great health with only very little spark retard of 3.5 a the most on the very top of 3rd gear when the IAT's are getting hot and never anything below that.

wow this turned into a rant.. Sorry

 

[IpHoOnDyou]

Re: IC temps on run

Thanks you for that.. Thats pretty much what I am seeing now and thats almost the same setup that I have.



Dave you are awesome! I guess my next upgrade will be meth/water injection. Is there any cooling setups that will keep the temps down without meth. I have read and spoke to tom at sportmachines and also seen it a lot on here that stock setup is good for a long while granted everything is functioning right. Many people go A2A and say their temps are lower at the end of the run with no meth. I guess what I am getting at, I am going to fix this IC system and waiting on sportmachines IC setup to complete its GP so I can get a better bottom that I know is not junk inside. But the price of that is about half the price of an A2A. Now running a new pump and a fan on it as well just increases the cost closer to A2A. I am not trying to turn this into a A2A is better than W2A or vis versa but the technical side of me is curious to numbers that go along with this as in Datamaster comparison and such. I dont track this truck and since its very rare to get into a race where I live. I really just want a reliable setup with great function. I daily drive this truck since I got it.. Actually parked my STI becaues I found the truck much more comforitable to ride in and my data master tells me to this day that its in great health with only very little spark retard of 3.5 a the most on the very top of 3rd gear when the IAT's are getting hot and never anything below that.

wow this turned into a rant.. Sorry

In my honest opinion a2a makes things alot better once its all in. My a2a took me every bit of 2 months to fab up paint install an tweek for fit. Yes it was a tottal pain in the ass, an i hope my brother doesnt want one on his syclone. But my iat's went from high 160's (intercooler pump shit out) to 120 after a 1/4 run. I also have a c02 grid on my intercooler, now like you said i dont want this to turn into a rant about w2a or a2a. But for sake of reliability intake temps an how clean it makes your truck look i vote a2a all day. But for your issue your having with temps in the 150 after a 1/4 blast i would say that is relitivly normal, how fast it cools down determines how your system is working
Steve

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: IC temps on run

I now have an A2A and Alky injection. You can use water injection for cooling. The bigger issue with Alky is you need to be able to lean out the fueling to compensate for the methanol. I use code 59 for that is no problem for me (plus I have unique compression, Vortec, custom cam, injectors, turbo). I think that the new turbo tweak chip has the ability to lean out the fuel mixture, I have no experience with his tunes but on paper it looks good to me.

 

[carVSsuv]

Re: IC temps on run

Thank you all for your input.. I got what I needed..

I dont mind the W2A hassel as I will find better ways to make it work (I like the challenge). But I do see that most A2A looks nice but like everything.. now you have to clock your turbo then run a new intake and possibly move the battery.

I think the engine bay looking half retard is kinda funny to show people. Its truely is 20 pounds of crap in 5 pounds of space.

Again this is a street truck and I rarely if ever take it to a track. I refuse to do anything to this truck (unless absolutely needed like engine, tranny or transfer case remove) to put it up on the dreaded "JACKSTANDS!!!" I enjoy it still to much and now I am getting it to handle and drive nice with A/C working and no problems.

Again thanks for the input.. Much appreciated.

 

[IpHoOnDyou]

Re: IC temps on run

Either do I. You stated:

In my honest opinion a2a makes things alot better once its all in. But for sake of reliability intake temps an how clean it makes your truck look i vote a2a all day​

All that 2-1/2 or 3" plumbing makes it cleaner? Many systems block access to the distributor worse than the stock metal IC lines. Battery relocate required. And "reliability"? From 15 years of observations the problems associated with battery relocates alone aren't worth it. Removing the RF inner wheel-well is now an hour project because the IC plumbing must be removed first.

I had a nieldemo's Syclone that has an A2A here for some extensive work . Seems like I had the goddamn IC plumbing off that thing 4 times a day for 2 weeks. What a royal f ucking pain in the ass. It seemed like I couldn't open the hood for any purpose without the IC plumbing being in the way, or worse having to be removed before I could perform the current task. And after spending a 1/2 day attempting to fit the RH inner fender, it still rattled. Never again. A2A is a joke on a street driven SyTy. IMO it turns the truck into a cobbled POS.

And here's the bottom line. Backed by many people including Tooky that did extensive testing and documentation. An A2A doesn't improve a thing on a street driven truck. Owners that think they see improvement are fooling themselves. Empirical data doesn't support it.

Disclaimer: The above tirade is in the context of a street-driven SyTy equipped with Air Conditioning, with an A2A that fits in the lower CCHE position. Results and performance for a large front-mount used in a mostly strip SyTy are probably different, and I have no practical experience with strip or competition SyTy's.

If only i can show you a pic of my setup Dave, you would love it!!