Innovative Mini Gate experience

[Ian Turgeon]

Installed a mini gate on the stock turbo truck this weekend. After my experience with the progate on my truck, I was interested to find how the minigate faired against the progate.

boost controller is the same valve I used on my truck, ITS gate mounted on the cross over, and a custom built dump tube.

Pops (sy229-rob turgeon) has a jabsco and dual spal fans on the lower cche. Well he wanted to keep these, so when the mini gate came out it raised an eye brow. (this after my problem of the pro gate hitting the stock cche w/o fans)


install:
So we raised the truck and started planning the fitment of the mini gate. Immediately it was obvious that this gate was considerably smaller and could potentially fit w/o spacing the intercooler off the frame.

Next task after finding the angle and placement of the gate, was the dump tube. Unfortunately theres no good place to get the dump tube out. So we decided to go back, and aim the exhaust downward out the rear of the crossmember. Theres a lot in the way there with the ic, fans, pump, exhaust, and steering linkage.

Turns out our decision was not perfect, as the ic pump gets in the way, and caused us a little setback.

Well, he has an aux IC cooler, so we hooked up his pump in limbo mode, and left the whole lower cche in the bed.

Next weekend we'll figure out where/how to relocate the ic pump.


results:

Dad was very happy. Fast spooling, and definite boost control. The control is a little wavy as a result of the manual controller (1psi fluctuation through each gear) but its considerably better then before.

Ian's crazy conclusion for the month:
I've seen this on 3 trucks now, so I'd be insane not to notice a trend. External boost controllers added to a stock turbo'd truck have reduced knock retard on all three trucks. Me and Adam used to change ignition components at a 4-6 month interval because of high retard numbers every time we used diagnostics. We'd see numbers above 10 which is cause for concern.

Well, dad's truck is a resurrection, brought back from the dead with a rebuilt motor (and just about everything else). Well, its been knocking badly as well. Today, with the its mini gate, boosting around with 140 degree intake temps, operating on a half full aux cooler and no lower cche in 90 degree weather... hes getting less then 3 degrees... with less then 1 degree being the norm.

This same thing is what I've seen on my and adam's trucks. So what the hell is it? I cant explain why it would reasonably reduce knock retard, but only speculate.


Even if we cant explain it, lets say were a happy (and loudly boosting) crowd.

 

[Ian Turgeon]

and some pics

http://sytyarchives.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album38

 

[Sy229]

Made for quite a Dad's Day

A few other comments:
- The MiniGate is a quality product, and a good match for the stock setup
- As you can see from the photos, John from RPI in Orlando did a great job fabricating and welding the custom dump pipe.
- We will have to find a new home for my Jabsco pump, maybe by moving the bracket around to the underside of the heat exchanger, or getting a SureFlo setup under the hood.

Lastly, I've never seen (or not seen) retard numbers like I got today. Last time at the track, I had a best 1.71 60' foot, but a 1/4 mile time of 14 sec. I didn't have datamaster on it that day, but I assume huge retard numbers meant I was just coasting through the traps.

Since then I've had the tranny rebuilt, and now the external wastegate installed. Whether the fix is attributable to the rebuild, the gate, or both, I can't say for sure. But regardless I'm REAL happy with the results!

 

[TURBO TY]

how would you compair the mini gate to the atr gate and up to what hp can the mini handel?

 

[Sy229]

how would you compair the mini gate to the atr gate and up to what hp can the mini handel?

According to RPM's web site, it's good to 700 hp. I'm not making anywhere near that kind of power, so no personal basis from which to verify.

I don't have any experience with the ATR to make a comparison, but given the issues with ATR's customer service that have appeared on the BB over the years, I'd proceed with caution.

 

[TURBO TY]

thanks, how much is one?

 

[Sy229]

Free if you got a great birthday gift like me!

Otherwise, Here's the web site for pricing

 

[smeagol]

ATR gate = POS

 

[TURBO TY]

if it is so bad then how did some of trucks go in the 10s and high 9s with the atr gate on them??????????????

 

[Buster]

if it is so bad then how did some of trucks go in the 10s and high 9s with the atr gate on them??????????????

Damn good point. Let see.. Les went low 10's with a KB intercooler, your buddy went 9's with the ATR gate, and Chuck B went 11.3's with the stock turbo, this is officially my new combo.

 

[E-Rue]

you forgot your stock exhaust manifolds.

e

 

[SYO237]

i gotta say, i was definately impressed with the install.


i kissed my external gate goodbye a few days ago in order to get a PTE52 to dump in the sy.... but if i eventually go back to an external gate, definatley going with the ITS gate.


already said, the clearance issue was a prob with the dump and the IC pump, but i dont think it was a major setback.... it was only just slightly off that the pump wouldnt clear.... maybe some more tweaking on the dump could fix the prob, but then again, this was a one off custom dump made on the spot. John at Randall Performance Industries does one hell of a job as a welder.... now to convince him to start on some headers for us


i recommend both the progate and the ITS gate. both are well made units and have the numbers backing them on performance. those looking eventually to do an A2A setup, definately go with the ITS gate to eliminate clearance issues for the core.

 

[Loeryder]

I think i found one of my next mods.

Thanks Ian and Rob for the specifics.

Any chance you could make a few extra of those dump tubes???

Came out killa!

More pics of the gate up in there please.

 

[smeagol]

if it is so bad then how did some of trucks go in the 10s and high 9s with the atr gate on them??????????????

Go do some reading on it. The ATR gate is a POS, people have had nothing but problems. Buick guys are huge fans of it :wink:

Also, to go real fast, if you are running high octane, *good* boost control isn't a HUGE option.

If you run pump gas, and require solid boost control, might be changing it day to day... the ATR would be dead last on my list of wastegates.

HKS are great, Deltagates, Racegates work pretty well. The Innovative wastegates are new, and seem to be doing very well. Tial work well. Some people have issues with Richard Lee wastegates also.

 

[bdubb]

if it is so bad then how did some of trucks go in the 10s and high 9s with the atr gate on them??????????????

Damn good point. Let see.. Les went low 10's with a KB intercooler, your buddy went 9's with the ATR gate, and Chuck B went 11.3's with the stock turbo, this is officially my new combo.

hahha. NICE, didn't Howie got 10s on stock cam also?

 

[ghettosled]

fyi, usually if we install the mini gates at the shop we cut off the ic pump bracket from the shroud, and relocate it on the side of the shroud(b/t the pass side frame and cche) Then you need a heater hose with (2) 90s in it, and a couple hose barb connections. This routes the hoses completely away from the external and dump tube and the pump can be remounted firmely on the side with the same bracket.

hope that helps. if there are any questions let me know. Glad the gates are working well.

 

[Ian Turgeon]

as far as the dump tubes go, the tolerances here are real slim, so I wouldnt begin to reccomend my new favorite welder to mass produce these.

Not that he couldnt make a jig and reproduce them, just that the differences in mounting the xross over pipe and motor mounts, and ic routing and pump placement issues really do make it a custom job.

I'll talk to my guy this week and see what his opinion is on the matter.

 

[ghettosled]

this is exactly why we dont do a dump tube in kit form as well. We can mount the wg flange in the same spot on the x-over, but you will notice some ic hoses hang different, etc. so to also include a dump tube would create some problems. We will mount the flange but if you prefer a dump tube(highly recommended), you need to have someone do it on the truck.

 

[TURBO TY]

what about mounting the wastegate on the down pipe?

 

[smeagol]

what about mounting the wastegate on the down pipe?

Actually you are dumping exhaust pressure from before the turbine wheel when it is mounted 'on the downpipe'... and this is a tricky, labor intensive affair when you want to do this on a stock turbo.