Integral VS. External

Integral VS. External

  • External WG DP

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    1

Captain Morgan

Moderated User
Which would you choose?

Just curious to find out opinions of fellow SyTy owners. The new MPE SyTy downpipe will be released soon. Details to follow.



Please dont include money as a factoring reason. Just what you LIKE, for whatever reason that may be.
 

smeagol

Active member
MPE = Mease ? Is this for stock turbo setups ?

Wastegate - it depends.

Sorry, but price weighs into it, for my opinion. Any external costs at least 300 bucks, any decent downpipe is gonna cost 300-500 bucks. An integral wastegate setup is gonna be cheaper, hands down.

If money isn't an object, I'd go external.

If money is a concern, integral, but see below.

If I don't like the turbo or wastegate or actuator design, i'll spend extra on an external.

If packaging is an issue, i'd choose integral.

sorry for the retarded answers - but too many things come into play for me.

i have a PTE integral on my truck, but i'm going external... Why you ask?
- I found a good wastegate at the right price :wink:
- I can get a good downpipe, at a decent price
- I will use a regulator to control it, which means I can sell off my electronic controller - which means more funds & less crap in the cab.
- It will have better flow/capabilities for me in the future, which is a big consideration since i'm already planning a 10 second buildup.
- Integral wastegate actuators sometimes drive me batty, keeping them clean, sticking your head in the fenderwell to make adjustments.

My experience with external gates has been *very* good. My experience with integrals has been so-so.
 

Captain Morgan

Moderated User
Brian, thank you very much for the extremely detailed answer.

and yes, you are correct also, MPE = Mease Performance Engineering
 

smeagol

Active member
NJTy180 said:
and yes, you are correct also, MPE = Mease Performance Engineering

Not to tear into a vendor right away, but isn't this the same Mease that Buick guys were on the verge of hunting down and murdering for waiting months and months for their downpipe GP ?

I don't know what their impression of him is nowadays, but there were some very long, angry threads regarding this on turbobuick.com
 

bdubb

I am teh kingpin!
depends.

will the WG be routed back into the exhaust on the external, this plus the ease of adjustment makes externals nice. changing a spring to get your base pressure is also slick, and such.

internals, kinda of a pain, but if made to fit the application, they rock. no problems holding boost, only downsides is like green said.

personally, i'd like to have an internal setup that works...

or a quiet external setup.
 

Captain Morgan

Moderated User
smeagol said:
Not to tear into a vendor right away, but isn't this the same Mease that Buick guys were on the verge of hunting down and murdering for waiting months and months for their downpipe GP ?

I don't know what their impression of him is nowadays, but there were some very long, angry threads regarding this on turbobuick.com

same person yes, but like everything else on the internet, most of the time only half the story is told or the truth just never comes out.

There was a little more to it than just what meets the eye, but either way, the turbo buick community has its own problems, and all the pipes WERE completed and shipped dispite all the bitching.

I dont believe a SyTy GP is in the works as of yet so dont worry, especially since we only have a prototype. However, once the product is ready for sale and prices are announced, there should not be any hold ups.

As of right now, 3 pipe will be offered, all 3" stainless.

Integral WG

External WG

External Mini WG



possible 3" for stock & 20G as well as custom pipes may follow depending on interest.
 

Captain Morgan

Moderated User
bdubb said:
depends.

will the WG be routed back into the exhaust on the external, this plus the ease of adjustment makes externals nice. changing a spring to get your base pressure is also slick, and such.

internals, kinda of a pain, but if made to fit the application, they rock. no problems holding boost, only downsides is like green said.

personally, i'd like to have an internal setup that works...

or a quiet external setup.

most likely the external will be routed back into the exhaust.
external dumps can be done too im sure, but I havent seen anyone run one on the street.

I dont wanna go putting words in anyones mouths just yet, but once I have answers, I will share them as soon as I get them, dont worry.
 

Syclone#1992

SyTy.net Moderator
bdubb said:
or a quiet external setup.

Why quiet? I love scaring old people with it, makes me laugh everytime. Definately external for me, I would never settle for anything less. :lol:

Or you can route it into the downpipe or exhaust like stated.

Good luck,
 

smeagol

Active member
NJTy180 said:
smeagol said:
Not to tear into a vendor right away, but isn't this the same Mease that Buick guys were on the verge of hunting down and murdering for waiting months and months for their downpipe GP ?

I don't know what their impression of him is nowadays, but there were some very long, angry threads regarding this on turbobuick.com

same person yes, but like everything else on the internet, most of the time only half the story is told or the truth just never comes out.

There was a little more to it than just what meets the eye, but either way, the turbo buick community has its own problems, and all the pipes WERE completed and shipped dispite all the bitching.

I dont believe a SyTy GP is in the works as of yet so dont worry, especially since we only have a prototype. However, once the product is ready for sale and prices are announced, there should not be any hold ups.

As of right now, 3 pipe will be offered, all 3" stainless.

Integral WG

External WG

External Mini WG



possible 3" for stock & 20G as well as custom pipes may follow depending on interest.

I hear ya on the internet thing. I just wanted to make sure, and i never did hear the outcome. I (along with others) wish they never heard of Al Dustan, or Tony Dequick. I'm not putting Mease in the same league (yet ;)) but if you weren't aware of that situation, i'd be real leery. Are you local to Mease ?

What turbo/headers are these downpipes going to fit? I don't see a real need for stuff to fit the PTE housing - PTE's downpipe is nice, Mike Lee makes external downpipe setups to fit the PTE housing. I'd rather see some other products made - quality headers that might be worth owning, maybe a cheap stainless exhaust instead of being forced to use ATR. I kinda felt the same way about Mease offering the Terry Houston downpipe copy. I don't like copy cat, undercut businesses. I'd rather see some new products. Not to tear into Racetronix, but they started out offering hotwire kits & matched injectors for Buicks. Same stuff you can buy from other vendors; but they undercut them for a few bucks. If the other companies were raping people, I'd be all for it... but if you are talking me sending my money to someone who is running a small business thriving on undercutting bigger places, versus me sending it to PTE, who run great tech sessions, who took a big risk in making a custom exhaust housing/downpipe setup for our trucks, who have made plug n play harnesses for FAST for Syty's... I'll send it to PTE.

Also, that situation can cause some serious issues. Like this:
The Terry Houston downpipe - ATR copied it, located the wastegate puck in a *slightly* different location. You bought the PTE exhaust housing for your Buick, which had the wastegate port opened up nicely. Then you have horrible spool up. Turns out that PTE had their CNC setup for the Houston downpipe, and when ATR fudged things, it screwed up a bunch of people as the wastegate never sealed correctly.

Again, I don't want to judget Mease, I just wanted to rant to waste people's time.. no wait, I just wanted to make a hesitant warning.

The downpipes for the stock/mitsu stuff would be awesome. Many people don't want to go huge with the PTE, or spend that much money out of the box, or just want solid boost control. If you offered a 3" downpipe with an external (or a GOOD integral) for stock setup - you'd gain some serious power. Less back pressure, plus very solid boost control. $400-500 investment; down the road, you step up to a hybrid, or 20g, or whatever to fit that downpipe. Opposed to the spend $1400-1500 for a PTE, and almost necessitate a stall converter etc etc.
 

Captain Morgan

Moderated User
Brian,

First I would like to say thank you for making 2 good and very informative posts.

As far as undercutting and coping other pipes, thats not the situation. I dont want to name any companies, but I recently saw someones new integral 3" DP that was part of a kit before they installed it on thier truck, and my first reactions was, "WTF is this POS". Now I can say anything about performance, having not owned or driven a truck with one, but the overall look/welds/cuts of the pipe were pitiful. Also, from what my friend who with me at the said, the puck itself (i think the material used?) was not all that great.

As some of you may know, I recently purchased a turbo (only) from this same company so naturally I called them first to get a price on the matching downpipe. Upon hearing the $700+ price of this POS pipe, my jaw nearly hit the floor, FOR THIS is the reason why I investigated having a custom pipe made. I KNOW for a fact the quality of this pipe will go far beyond what I have seen.

We all know the SyTy community is not a huge endless supply of business in any way, shape or form. We are limited to the few though trucks that were built, the couple thousand people who actually know what they are driving, and the few hundred who want to go all out with big performance upgrades.

I have mentioned all these points to Mease and made sure he understands them. He said he does, he's not looking to make a big name for himself over here, he just wants to offer a good product to those who want it.

Now I only know so much about what happened on the Buick GP, but I personally will not allow that shit to go on here. I dont know how, but it wont happen.

As far as why Mease is doing the "common" pipe first, is because I need one, and this is the only chance he is going to have my truck as a jig till he makes his own. Once these pipes are fully complete/working prototypes, then other pipes should not be a problem.

If the community wants a 3 bolt Mitsu style 3" downpipe, either external or integral, im sure that can be accomplished with ease.

As far as headers go, that too has already been discussed. Once this first project leaves the ground and is rolling, they might become reality also.

Like I said, me feeling isnt to bring another vendor into a place to undercut anyone else or steal business, but I feel this product will be better than whats current or at least what I have seen (I have not seen a Mike Lee pipe, so forgive me Mike, not trying to discredit you).

Once this pipe gets going, "new" products are sure to follow.

Thank you for your time.
 

myclone

Donating Member
Not that Id buy a DP as Id prolly make my own but you asked for opinions :wink: So.....

Id hafta go with external for the reasons Greeny stated.

As far as cost I didnt mind the extra cost for the external as Ive come to learn you just about cant be over waste gated but being under waste gated can be a huge PIA. With a decently sized ext Ive only gotta buy a WG once so it can be used on just about any build I can throw at it down the road.

Something to keep in mind... It seems to me there are more ppl here that like 100% bolt on stuff and dont really care to do any extra fabbing to get a part to work compared to the buick crowd. What I mean by that is my advice would be to make SURE whatever is made fits and is as easy to install as possible. Maybe its just that there are so few of us compared to the buick guys? Maybe its the age diff of the enthusiousts of each particular vehicle (seems to be lots more buick guys with garages and fabbing tools compared to the sytyer)? Dunno really. Just my ramblings.
 

bdubb

I am teh kingpin!
Syclone#1992 said:
bdubb said:
or a quiet external setup.

Why quiet? I love scaring old people with it, makes me laugh everytime. Definately external for me, I would never settle for anything less. :lol:

Or you can route it into the downpipe or exhaust like stated.

Good luck,

how long have you had it vented open? you will get tried of it.
 

AXXE

Member
Morgan - Bill had a Tial external on his truck with a 20G. It was not routed back into the exhaust. Talk to him about how loud it was before you make a decision.
 

BigAl...

Member
external vs internal hmmmmm

external vs internal hmmmmm

In my opinion (worth less than $.02) the external is by far, night and day, leaps and bounds, (whatever term you wish to use) BETTER ::thumbsup:: than an internal. I keep hereing about these properly sized internals and properly sized actuators but they never surface (I'm sure they exsist but there's not to many around). As far as noise, if it bothers you, you can do what I did
aak.sized.jpg

that's a porsche wg muffler I used, it definetely helped with the noise.

A freind of mine had a car that made 745hp to the wheels, (external of course) he had the wg dumping back into the DP, he then rerouted the wg and dumped it out and picked up 33hp. I saw this with my own eyes :eek: , no bs stories. Years ago I heard of this theory of making more power by dumping the wg to the atmosphere when I spoke with one of the techs at turbonetics (at the time I thought he was full of it)

just my .02 worth (or less)
BigAl...
 

smeagol

Active member
Dumping to the atmosphere *can* make more power, but it all depends on the combo. So it's not a proven hp maker off the bat for sure.

Also, the PTE type of integral has proven itself 100s of times over in the Buick world; *many* are running it with great results.

Don't take the stock syty turbo integral performance as the average - it is has the worst boost control performance I've ever heard of in a turbo I think. Comparing any external to that system is a one sided argument. Comparing an external to a PTE integral, or any decent integral setup... that's where it gets difficult.

Tony has had great results with his integral wastegate system, as well as many others.
 

BigAl...

Member
Point well taken, you're absolutely correct, PTE's setup does seem to work great. I didn't think morgan was considering the pte setup. Other than the PTE setup, go with an external!!! Hey Brian, have you had success with the regulator boost controller? I've heard alot of people have boost creep in the higher gears with a regulator setup. I have the profec b boost contoller and I love it (rock solid).

BigAl...
 
jeff at js designs is right now in teh midst of building me a 3" for stock/20g/internal.
will post results but i am expecting good things.
morgan - which company? - i'd like to know who to avoid.
moragn - seriously - this is likely the least nasty, most thoughtfully written post i have ever seen from you!
mike
 

Sy Guy 0024

Member
I got in on the Mease Buick DP group purchase you guys are referring to. Picked up an integral-wg unit. I think it was a week or two late, but I was in no hurry (hell, I STILL don't have my engine finished and the GP was over a year ago :eek: ). The build quality looks excellent, but I can't obviously comment on performance yet. I would like to see what the MPE syty pipe looks like.

Corbin
 

CLONE

New member
rockvillespeed said:
morgan - which company? - i'd like to know who to avoid.

I'd bet he's talking about PTE. Their DP's are made by Terry Houston and the quality is excellent IMO. However if you don't get the DP in kit form with a turbo, they rape you on the price for $72x.xx plus the price of an actuator, etc..

Like BG, I to am going away from the PTE DP and to a Mike Lee DP and external. I got a smoking deal on an external WG and couldn't pass up the chance to spend some $$ with Mike Lee.
 
Top