internal engine questions

L

Ls10

New member
so im doing a small build over the winter. nothing crazy just a street truck. id be shocked if it saw the track a couple times, if at all. ill be doing the basic vortec head swap, 415 cam, headers,bigger turbo, fuel system, ect. I figure while I have it out I may as well do forged pistons and rods, as well as a .030 bore so I know the walls are smooth and straight. my question is there is tons of bearings and ring options out there. ive been told get king bearings, ive always run them and had great luck but they are very inexpensive so I don't know if they aren't good enough for a stronger motor. as far as rings I have no idea, I get so much mixed info.

Do the eagle rods come with wrist pins, or the pistons? or are those separate ?

What is the recommended head gasket with the vortec heads? thanks guys
 
T

TeeTopZ

Member
Re: internal engine questions

A mild build will be fine with stock exhaust manifolds, so you can save some coin on headers
 
wildphil

wildphil

I Love My Ty's
Re: internal engine questions

King bearings are good. I used them on my engine. It is far from stock.

The pistons you buy should have wrist pins with them.

Eagle rods are good. You will probably have to tweek your oil pan for clearance with them and maybe your block also.

Also unless you already have the 415 cam. A custom cam for a turbo engine would be a better choice.

You do know that you will have to tune for these mods?
 
Last edited:
Don W.

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: internal engine questions

I've been running King bearings for quite awhile now. No issues, at least none that are the bearings fault. :( My machinist says Kings are "the real deal." Not that much more $ IMHO. They used to make a 3/4 groove main. (better oiling to the rods)

If I were to build from scratch I'd use I-beam rods not Eagles. They are stronger. I have Eagles though, no problems. Pistons should come with pins. I am using CP-Carrillo "turbo" pistons. with an accumulator groove and a anti detonation grooves. With these pistons at .030 over I ended up with 9.0-1 compression. The Carrillo's came with rings. The not so latest info is that the second compression gets more gap than the top. Total Seal rings are expensive. Not sure we need them.

You may end with "stock" rod bearings. They make HD cam bearings. Recommended.

As mentioned probably don't need headers. 3" DP and exhaust would be good.

I can give you my cam #. Reasonable idle but only 10" vac. Stock lifters should work. Depending on the cam you'll need adjustable rockers. 3 angle valve job and assembly by someone who knows what they're doing.

Cometic gaskets on my motor. Expensive but, IMHO, worth it for such an important piece.

ARP hardware.

Hopefully the cyls aren't "smooth" but bored and honed with a torque plate. Block will need to be clearanced for Eagle rods.

And my never ending rant to have it balanced by someone who knows. Our engines use "special" narrow bob weights.

I probably left something out.

Sorry for the long answer.
 
Don W.

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: internal engine questions

Aeroking said:
get a Melling Select oil pump. not a standard M55
Click to expand...

I ended up putting a small shim under the relief spring. Result: 50# oil pressure. our oiling system is not even the same as a SB much less a bowtie so IMO we need the extra. :2cents:
 
Aeroking

Aeroking

e.i.
Re: internal engine questions

Don W. said:
I ended up putting a small shim under the relief spring. Result: 50# oil pressure. our oiling system is not even the same as a SB much less a bowtie so IMO we need the extra. :2cents:
Click to expand...

The Select series refers to the "old style" casting which is stronger than the M55, regardless of pressure or flow.
 
Don W.

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: internal engine questions

Aeroking said:
The Select series refers to the "old style" casting which is stronger than the M55, regardless of pressure or flow.
Click to expand...

Just talking about pressure. Way back when I upgraded to the Melling. Been so long I can't tell you which one...:rotf: But I do know it was the "high flow" version. So with 2 fewer cyls and high flow I got plenty of oil going somewhere... FWIW since I race so much I just cut the oil filter which I do fairly often. Not a speck of anything so I'm a happy camper.
 
Peter

Peter

my Ty and me 25+ years
Re: internal engine questions

Regarding higher flow oil pumps, be careful. High volume oil pumps put more load on the distributor drive gear.
I have a Melling 10552 pump, a mildly larger oil pump, only 10 or 15% more volume. Nonetheless, in two years, mine severely wore the distributor gear, and I could feel some wear on the cam gear also (not good!). Pay extra and get the composite distributor gear (and hope it does not break teeth), or run a brass gear and keep an eye on it. Also, cut an oiling groove in the distributor housing to increase lubrication to these gears. There are many references on how to do this.
If you don't pay attention to this, you will eventually need a new cam.
The pump does work beautifully. Never low pressure, even at high temperatures in St. Louis summer.
 
Don W.

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: internal engine questions

You are correct on dist gear load. I had not heard of a notch is the dist to oil the gear. I always thought enough just got by the dist for that. Interesting idea. I have over a couple thousand miles on this cam with a stock dist and the dist gear shows -0- wear. It is an issue for some though. I've actually pulled the dist on occasion just to check. Personally I'm against a composite or brass gear. Obviously people use them though.
 
dgoodhue

dgoodhue

BuSTeD 4.3
Re: internal engine questions

The high oil pressures can cause problem for some turbo's in particular ball bearing turbos. I would use a standard volume Melling Select. Our engines aren't high reving.

I would do a 4 bolt mains unless your planning on only using small turbo and lower boost pressures. I have read that the factory up good until 500hp. If you want to go past that will some reliability I would use 4 bolt mains.
 
L

Ls10

New member
Re: internal engine questions

Don W. said:
I've been running King bearings for quite awhile now. No issues, at least none that are the bearings fault. :( My machinist says Kings are "the real deal." Not that much more $ IMHO. They used to make a 3/4 groove main. (better oiling to the rods)

If I were to build from scratch I'd use I-beam rods not Eagles. They are stronger. I have Eagles though, no problems. Pistons should come with pins. I am using CP-Carrillo "turbo" pistons. with an accumulator groove and a anti detonation grooves. With these pistons at .030 over I ended up with 9.0-1 compression. The Carrillo's came with rings. The not so latest info is that the second compression gets more gap than the top. Total Seal rings are expensive. Not sure we need them.

You may end with "stock" rod bearings. They make HD cam bearings. Recommended.

As mentioned probably don't need headers. 3" DP and exhaust would be good.

I can give you my cam #. Reasonable idle but only 10" vac. Stock lifters should work. Depending on the cam you'll need adjustable rockers. 3 angle valve job and assembly by someone who knows what they're doing.

Cometic gaskets on my motor. Expensive but, IMHO, worth it for such an important piece.

ARP hardware.

Hopefully the cyls aren't "smooth" but bored and honed with a torque plate. Block will need to be clearanced for Eagle rods.

And my never ending rant to have it balanced by someone who knows. Our engines use "special" narrow bob weights.

I probably left something out.

Sorry for the long answer.
Click to expand...
I already have the heads,cam,intake,and headers. Is it just the pan or the block that needs to be clearanced as well?
 
Don W.

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: internal engine questions

AFAIK the block will need to be clearanced for aftermarket rods. Stock rods are fairly stout. Others can chime in on using those instead. For the pan what I did was, with the assembled block upside down, I set the pan on the block without the gasket. Turning the crank I could tell where it was touching. I would use a mallet to pound a dent . Repeat until everything cleared. Then by assembling with the gasket I had a bit of extra clearance.

Is a 415 cam designed to work with stock rockers, lifters and pushrods? Just curious.
 
L

Ls10

New member
Re: internal engine questions

Don W. said:
AFAIK the block will need to be clearanced for aftermarket rods. Stock rods are fairly stout. Others can chime in on using those instead. For the pan what I did was, with the assembled block upside down, I set the pan on the block without the gasket. Turning the crank I could tell where it was touching. I would use a mallet to pound a dent . Repeat until everything cleared. Then by assembling with the gasket I had a bit of extra clearance.

Is a 415 cam designed to work with stock rockers, lifters and pushrods? Just curious.
Click to expand...
From what I see a 415 is pretty mild. But I do have hardened pushrods,roller rockers, and better valve springs
 
L

Ls10

New member
Re: internal engine questions

Do the eagles typically use standard size bearings? I know I will need to measure. Just curious
 
Don W.

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: internal engine questions

Ls10 said:
Do the eagles typically use standard size bearings? I know I will need to measure. Just curious
Click to expand...

Bearing size is determined by the application and how much the crank is ground. .010 for example. Not the rod. Commonly anyway.
 
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