Johnson Intercooler Pump Cavitation?

Michael

Member
I just replaced my dead stock Intercooler pump with a Johnson (thanks Ron for the quick shipment!). Judging by the visible movement in the upper IC, it appears to move much more fluid than stock. However, it seems to intermittently cavitate for a few seconds. I noticed this when running it with the engine off, trying to cool off the truck between rounds. Has anyone else seen this? Running the pump by iteself, it seems to happen for ~8 seconds every 1-2 minutes.

My Ty has rubber IC hoses, routed on the driver's side (to avoid the ATR cold air box). It previously had a kink at the pump outlet, but I added a 45° tube to allow the hose to make the curve without kinking.

Thanks and regards,
Michael
 

myclone

Donating Member
IMO it sounds like you have air still trapped in the system. Its a HUGE PIA to get the air out and the only way Ive found that works is letting the IC pump run for extended periods with the filler cap off.

It also seems to help in doing the above "burping" when the IC coolant is BOTH hot and cold. Ive got a bunch of extra lines and coolers on my truck and it litterally takes a couple of hours to fully "burp" the system cold then another couple of hours to again once Ive driven it to bring the IC coolant up to temp.

HTH.
 

psmvchaser

Member
Johnson...

Johnson...

Yeah I put in a Johnson about a month ago.

It seems to flow well, but I notice the same thing that you are talking about. I am attempting to get all the air out, and then I want to see how cool it stays.

Let me know if you figure anything out, I will do likewise.

Ken
 

Loeryder

New member
Yup, My johnson IC pump wiht only 30 miles on it left me siting in the pits at the nats trying to figure out why there was no fluid movement for about an hour before it decide to pump again.

Seemed everytime I checked it it was not flowing, every time Heather checked it was...
I should have let her drive, I'd have that 12.9 instead of my days best 13.004...

The nats rocked, you all missed a great time and a good bunch of people.
 

blownamigo

TYed Up Member
Interesting topic.

I'm fighting heat in the ic system myself. While i was working on my a-pillar install i let the pump running and the system burping for about 2 hours. After a few burps i added water again and so forth, as I went for a spin with my new installed ic tepm gauge i couldn't belief its reading.
With cold coolant and a cold engine it went up to 125F and after a while it climbed to 165F. I switched the Ultimate back to save T1 15 and did a WOT run ending with a peak readout of 196(!!)F.
I have a light mounted in the pillar that is connected to the pump, so i know its running. I have full rubber hose conversion, a Jabsco pump that is about 20 hours old and a huge 24x12 hayden cooler in front of the radiator.
What is wrong with the system???
Could it be that the pump is not strong enough for both coolers?
I' m going to look for kinks and install an additional ATR (SureFlow) Pump this afternoon directly before the hayden cooler, wonder if this will do the job...
Another bad thing I noticed, after cruising for a while the system settles at about 160F, once you park the truck and let it sit for 2 hours (I went for dinner yesterday) you will start with 185F once you return and start the truck, so heat just won't disappear and in some areas it is just not appropriate to leave the hood open and go for dinner... ;-)

Any suggestions?
Pat
 

sy112

New member
Pat,

your IC temp gauge, does that measure IC water temp or IAT? Cause my IC water can be cold to the touch and I still have around 95-110 IAT. If it just measures water temp, then I am dying to know what your IAT are with almost 200 degree water temp in the IC.

My other question is do you have an EGR block-off? Cause as I understand the Ultimate T1-15 still enables the EGR and that will absolutely kill IAT while driving around, totally heatsoaking everything, so maybe that is why you were approaching 200 degrees?

And I found the best way to get all the air out is to take off the upper IC(i've gotten pretty quick at it, I just leave one bolt to hold it in place) and hold it up higher than anythng else in the IC system, prop it up with something and let run for about 10 minutes. Seems to work for me.

Also try to flush out the IC and get rid of all the antifreeze out of the system, that just hurts heat transfer. I drained mine and added distilled water and some water wetter for corrosion and it seems to be doing well. Naturally put some antifreeze back in for colder months.

Good Luck
 
the pump i borrowed for testing purposes a bit ago wouldnt even come close to dealing with the atr external cooler and the return trip to the bed, etc - it would literally barely pump.
 

Ian Turgeon

Cascading Inspiration
however, I do have an aditional tip that has helped me purge air, I placed a petcock at the TOP of the aux cooler (read air rises). When filling, I make sure its as full as I can get it, then pop that thing open and let it purge air until it spits a steady stream of water.


Works very well for me.
 

tbauer03

TRBOBOX
I got a johnson pump and i have had no problems whatso ever i took the whole upper ic off and burbed it out while holding it in the the air and adding water and then sealed it when it is full and not burbing. and bolt back in place and then you got a full ic system.
 

Bill Z

Donating Member
Re: Johnson Intercooler Pump Cavitation?

I just got a new Johnson and I am not entirely pleased with it. After installing the Johnson, I tried again and again to burp it. Finally realized that I had the IC lines connected wrong. This wasn’t the pumps fault but it was the reason I purchased the Johnson. I thought my stock pump went out. During the winter I had changed my hoses and just did it wrong. I didn’t notice until spring that my IC wasn’t cooling.

So, I took out the stock pump and added the Johnson expecting at least the same amount of cooling or better. After I changed the IC hoses to where the return line to the pump was the bottom if the IC the cooling wasn’t what I had hoped for. Previously, I was able to cool my IC down after a stop light by some 20 degrees within a couple of blocks (running a stock mechanical fan). With the Johnson, I can drive at 40 to 50 MPH and drop only 10 degrees and that takes 4 miles.

I am thinking of putting my stock pump back in to confirm my suspicions.

Maybe I could do better by using both pumps. Yes, if one is good; two must be better.
 

SyTyJedi

Jedi Council
Re: Johnson Intercooler Pump Cavitation?

This is why I went to A2A. Is it worth all the hassle to constantly check to see if it's full or if the pump is actually flowing? How many hours have we all spent?

It just doesn't make sense to me from a time vs result standpoint.
 
Re: Johnson Intercooler Pump Cavitation?

what are your IAT temps with your A2A system? does it cool more or less than the stock one, I know ambient temp blah blah blah, but are you happy with the cooling versus a stock air2water???
 

James Thomas

"NO CLASS"
Re: Johnson Intercooler Pump Cavitation?

Ok guys, I'll try to kill a lot of birds with one post here. A properly designed and operating liquid to air I/C system will allways be better than A2A, period. Yes on SyTy's they can be a pain in the ass to deal with etc. but like anything else in the hotrod world, if you want it you gotta work for it / modify to get it and you have to be smarter than the parts your trying to work with :tup: .

Air rises to the top (unless traped). I saw the petcock being mentioned, he has his brain power cap on!. If there is any air in the system, you can purge and fool around for days to get all the air out (I did!) untill I did the rubber hose change over and noticed that the return line to the upper I/C was on the lower port and the suction was on the top port, don't know if it was supposed to be that way from the factory or not but I have seen many that are. Configured like this, any air in the top of the upper I/C gets sucked in and will cause a never ending cavitation problem and I mean the Upper has to be full to the fill neck to be above the top of the upper port, think about it! Suction should be on the bottom, return should dump in from the top.

Any increase in volume / flow to the stock system will help. I have the Johnson pump, aux cooler in front of the radiator with a bleed petcock and no problems. Now I see several mentions of aux coolers, additional hoses and lines going to the rear of the truck etc. Keep in mind that this is just like a fuel system. Keep the hose runs as short as possible, bends and 90's to a minimum and do not go smalller that 3/4 in. fittings on a stock or aux. in front of the radiator. Larger fittings and hoses are required for longer runs or there will be a major flow decrease proportional to the restriction and overall hose / line length. Look a flow vs. pressure drop table and you will see what I mean. Larger / longer systems (in or under the bed / rear of vehicle) will require larger pumps, hoses and fittings. I would say that a Johnson or stock type replacement would be ok for a aux. cooler in front of the radiator but beyond that lager pumps will be required depending on the size of the system and yes hotrodding involves math so figure YOUR system specs. (most will very due to hose/fitting size and overall length due to routing and placement) and do your flow calculations and that will give you your pump flow requirments in G.P.H.

A2A is less to deal with if you just want to bolt on and go with little brain power involved but less maintenance, agreed and no argument from me. A2W will beat the A2A any day (if done correctly) so the choice is yours. We do I/C systems for the U.S. Navy and I will never use an A2A system on anything because I know what I can do with a liquid to air system.
____________
James Thomas
 

Flyin Ryan

hated cuz he drives fords
Re: Johnson Intercooler Pump Cavitation?

If your truck is a drag strip only truck then air2water will be best.. but any kind of driving will result in extreme heat soak etc... we all know this which is why on a dialy driven truck air2air has many more benefits then air2water.. I mean the benefits speak for them selves IE

no heat soak
no maintinance
no coolent to worry about
less weight
less lines to leak or kink
less engine clutter
less electrical connections/clutter

The choice would be clear to me as my truck is more street raced and daily driven then anything if I wasn't poor.
 
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