New engine, oil?

92 Ty 1173

Active member
Ok I'm sure this is an age old question but here it goes. Just putting my engine together, all new stuff, what oil is recommended to break it in and how long? After that I was going to run synthetic but just read the thread about the difference between conventional and synthetic and it appears that it is just a $$ difference. Sythetic ain't what it used to be. Any thoughts?? If I go with conventional I'll prolly run Castrol.
 

cloneman315

Active member
Re: New engine, oil?

Start motor for a few min
let it get to temp dump oil,drive it 500 miles dump again,then go to1k then go to Mobil one
 

jharrison

New member
Re: New engine, oil?

Regardless of which oil you choose the most important thing to do on a new motor is prime the oil system well.
 

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: New engine, oil?

Since I'm in this biz now, I'd like to let guys know what is happening with oils just so you don't waste a new engine.

Oil has changed a lot during the past 8 years and is getting ready to change again... it's really too bad the oil companies aren't telling people the details about what is happening.

A number of years ago the oil companies began reducing the amounts of zinc and phosphorus in motor oils. The phosphorus forms a sacrificial layer between two parts that encounter high pressure, and prevents metal to metal contact from happening (these additives were engineered into motor oils primarily during WWII for high performance aircraft engines).

Zinc and phosphorus levels used to be between 1800 and 1900 ppm... today's oils have the level reduced to anywhere between 350 and 600ppm.

Auto manufacturers and oil companies worked together to bring about these reductions due to the EPA requiring catalytic converters to last longer (150k miles now required). When an engine ages and blowby increases, zinc and phosphorus can enter the exhaust stream and work to help clog the converter.

Oil manufacturers have refused to admit that reducing the zinc and phosphorus has had disastrous affects on flat tappet lifters and camshafts. We estimate that camshaft failures are now numbering in the thousands, and you can read the stories yourself on a number of hotrod/specialty forums.

We have found that other areas being affected are: piston skirts (piston scuffing), pushrod ball end wear, oil pump wear, and increased chances of rod bearing damage when periods of detonation are experienced (tuning a new turbo motor perhaps?). Many big-time engine builders are now using a zinc/phosphorus supplement, such as ZDDPlus, to bring zinc and phosphorus levels back up in those engines requiring it.

These engines include: Any motor with flat tappet cams (including almost all new diesels - diesel motor oil has undergone a big change this year as well with the new 'CJ' classification), and high performance motors, including turbo motors. In different drag cars that we're sponsoring, we're formulating blends with up to 2600ppm of zinc and phosphorus. These same cars, last year, were experiencing a lot of rocker cup failures/tolerance issues. This year, using ZDDPlus, they've yet to change a rocker cup.

So, having gotten that all out of the way, if you're still assembling I'd use our ZPaste assembly paste, then use a good oil with a zinc additive to bring the zinc levels up to around 1600ppm. Personally, I use Royal Purple with enough additive to bring the levels up to 1600.

I know a lot of guys will have differing opinions on this, but I'm immersed in this every day now, and I'm not really doing it to make a lot of money. I'm mainly doing it to help guys from destroying expensive, nice engines.

Hope this helps....

And if you don't want to use the zinc additive there are a few oils still out there with good zinc and phosphorus levels.... a few made by Joe Gibbs, and Royal Purple's higher end product (each around $12 a quart).
 

gstjohn

Sycloned S-10
Re: New engine, oil?

I use brad Penn racing oil 10w30. It's a conventional with a blend of synthetic. it has higher zinc levels which helps with wear also. So far no problems and it's only just a dollar or two more than conventional oil. I can get it locally for about 55 a case.
 

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: New engine, oil?

I use brad Penn racing oil 10w30. It's a conventional with a blend of synthetic. it has higher zinc levels which helps with wear also. So far no problems and it's only just a dollar or two more than conventional oil. I can get it locally for about 55 a case.

Forgot about Brad Penn.. Yup, it's a good one too.... I think around 1500ppm of zinc if I remember correctly.
 

gstjohn

Sycloned S-10
Re: New engine, oil?

Yea my engine seems to really like it, better than conventional valvoline. I never really thought a motor oil brand could change the way an engine runs. It's simply amazing!
 

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: New engine, oil?

Yea my engine seems to really like it, better than conventional valvoline. I never really thought a motor oil brand could change the way an engine runs. It's simply amazing!

It is amazing... I've got an 02 Bravada as my DD. I've always ran Mobil1 in it. About a year ago when Mobil1 changed I had the oil changed and stuck with the Mobil1.... after about a thousand miles I started picking up a bad clicking/valvetrain noise. While it was running I dumped a bottle of ZDDPlus in it and it quieted right down. But, I think the damage may have been done. Bucket type followers in overhead cam motors experience a lot of the same pressures as flat tappet cams. I'll be taking it in next week to have the valve cover taken off for an inspection... it will be interesting to see what they find.
 

ARIZONA QWKSTRM

New member
Re: New engine, oil?

I just purchased a new 383 for my Suburban and they Suggest Joe Gibbs Racing Oil. It is supposedly the best oil with zinc and Phosphorus. I have to use certain blends to maintain my warranty. Just look it up and research it for yourself. I will be using it for my Typhoon and Suburban. Good Luck.
 

jharrison

New member
Re: New engine, oil?

Is a ZDDP additive needed in my Sy since I have full roller rockers, roller lifters, and a roller cam?

Sorry to hijack, this thread sparked my concern.
 

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: New engine, oil?

Is a ZDDP additive needed in my Sy since I have full roller rockers, roller lifters, and a roller cam?

Sorry to hijack, this thread sparked my concern.

I use it in mine for two reasons: Piston skirt scuffing (newest cars don't have this problem due to coating processes used on the skirts), and I use it to protect rod bearings during my tuning sessions (a little bit of detonation can really hammer the rod bearings - the lubrication boundary goes from a hydrodynamic state, to an instantaneous, very short term boundary layer condition. Microscopic asperities in the surface can make contact, causing metal to metal contact - think of it as the tops of mountains sticking up just past the cloud level..those little peaks are where it's possible to get some contact - the zinc/phosphorus will prevent that. Of course the true fix is to eliminate the detonation, but tuning exposes one to detonation just due to the process.

If you're running high spring pressures you may see some wear issues in the pushrod cup on the rockers will low levels of Z and P.
 

92 Ty 1173

Active member
Re: New engine, oil?

Dude thanks alot for the info. Very interesting. I am going to check out your link. Is there a site where you can find out the ppm's of the different oil's. I use castrol in everything I've had but if it is not that good I will not use it in the new engine.
 

WyoSyclone

Active member
Re: New engine, oil?

Dude thanks alot for the info. Very interesting. I am going to check out your link. Is there a site where you can find out the ppm's of the different oil's. I use castrol in everything I've had but if it is not that good I will not use it in the new engine.

No prob. To find zinc levels just google your oil brand and weight ("castrol 10w-30), then do a 'search within results' for 'zinc level'. More often than not it will take you to a thread on the "Bob is the oil guy" forum where someone has had an oil analysis performed.
 

Typhoon #2131

SAVE THE TA-TAS
Re: New engine, oil?

Ok I'm sure this is an age old question but here it goes. Just putting my engine together, all new stuff, what oil is recommended to break it in and how long? After that I was going to run synthetic but just read the thread about the difference between conventional and synthetic and it appears that it is just a $$ difference. Sythetic ain't what it used to be. Any thoughts?? If I go with conventional I'll prolly run Castrol.

I just did a rebuild on mine. I did the straight w-30. I have 1100 miles on it and just changed it and used Castrol 10-30 and it works great. Hope that helps.
 

solidrockperformance

NO !!! back back !!!
Re: New engine, oil?

hey wyosyclone, what do you think of Rotella T? We usually run this in our race cars. I was under the assumption it still had high zink levels? Am I correct in assuming this?
Thanks
 

solidrockperformance

NO !!! back back !!!
Re: New engine, oil?

Seems as if the valvoline Durablend is the best bang for your buck? That is what I gathered anyways. We have used royal purple, but it is very hampering on the wallet.
Thanks
 

sparkwire

Donating Member
Re: New engine, oil?

The machine shop that built my turbo short block(weber racing) stocked bradd penn, so I bought a case.
I also ordered the additive.
 
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