NEW MSD COIL!!!

Typhoonracer

Typhoonracer

Old Guard GURU
Hey you guys that run a 6 series box.....

MSD just came out with a coil that puts out 500 ma AT 45Kvolts....

Around $120 $130??

Group buy maybe??

I will be installing it on my Ty so I can get it started...

I will let you all know how it runs...

Steve
 
Typhoonracer

Typhoonracer

Old Guard GURU
I will have part # tomorrow...

Brian,
Bring that system to MY HOUSE and make my truck start.

I will pay you $5000.

but it must be tomorrow and it must run....


or I will just get the coil and be happy (FOR NOW>>>>)!!

I talked to ryan today...

I WAS going to go MSD 7AL-3 this winter....

hummm ls1 coils what???????
 
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smeagol

Active member
Typhoonracer said:
I will have part # tomorrow...

Brian,
Bring that system to MY HOUSE and make my truck start.

I will pay you $5000.

but it must be tomorrow and it must run....


or I will just get the coil and be happy (FOR NOW>>>>)!!

I talked to ryan today...

I WAS going to go MSD 7AL-3 this winter....

hummm ls1 coils what???????
Click to expand...

gonna be ringing your doorbell in about 45 minutes steve :p

Do the LS1 coils over winter then.

eDist = 300ish
copy Nolan's setup - junkyard distributor, $150 or so for crank trigger
miscellaneous wiring, i can give you full schematic
OR
use Accel distributor for ~$300, and no need for crank trigger
mount the LS1 coils on existing valve covers, or hide them in the cowl
regular set of plug wires + $10 in LS1 coil terminals (coil end)
total cost = $500ish (could use the short LS1 wires, but probably not possible with ATR headers)

no need to ever change a cap/rotor, awesome ignition under all conditions, being able to open up the plug gap and make more power = priceless :D
 
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smeagol

Active member
I will finalize the wiring details soon... we are going to test the eDist on an oddfire today, so between that and comparing our setup to Nolan's, we should have a working schematic we can share.

I am going to wait until I know this setup works (the wiring we use for the oddfire) until I post it.

I'll make sure we give as explicit of details as possible, to make it easy for anyone to do. Once this is done, it may be best for some people just to have Casper's or whoever to make up a full harness for you, as it'd be plug n play then.

The coils are triggered by the eDist module, FYI. Do a search and we have covered edist details in depth.
 
Typhoonracer

Typhoonracer

Old Guard GURU
[/quote]
use Accel distributor for ~$300, and no need for crank trigger
mount the LS1 coils on existing valve covers, or hide them in the cowl
regular set of plug wires + $10 in LS1 coil terminals (coil end)
total cost = $500ish (could use the short LS1 wires, but probably not possible with ATR headers)

no need to ever change a cap/rotor, awesome ignition under all conditions, being able to open up the plug gap and make more power = priceless :D[/quote]

I really like the NO NEED TO CHANGE>>>EVER part....

My MSD system has worked flawlessly for 5-6 years (till this year when the coil died...

BUT I eat caps and rotors like crazy.
I replace them every 3 months or so when the truck is running.

I will be researching this BIG TIME after Nats is over and done with....


HEY!! Any volenteers to run NATS next year????

Steve
 
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smeagol

Active member
FWIW, anyone interested in doing this, I have a set of 8 coils, the harnesses for each and the valve cover brackets off one of a 5.3L truck motor. They are the same functional coil as the LS1 coil, but they are NOT the same. The reason I can't use 'em is that the LS1 coil harnesses I have made up work on *LS1* coils, not these. The weatherpack is slightly different... if you are a DIY guy, you can get these from me, use the existing harnesses to make your own, and you're done. Even have the short factory plug wires with 'em too.

Let me know if anyone is interested, I'll sell everything I got for $100 shipped. I'll have pics soon too.

I will have the schematics up soon to make this all work.
 
hamrhead

hamrhead

Donating Member
smeagol said:
quit wasting money on rotor burning ignitions that fail and install the LS1 coils damnit!
Click to expand...

Saving ca$h for this as of now and will be ready to buy as soon as it gets worked out! (With detailed instructions of course :roll: )

You can use these with F.A.S.T., Yes?
 
T

TyMeUp

New member
Ok, now I'm updated on that technology. But, I'm wondering why no one has come up with a DIS system using the OEM module and coils from the GM 3.1 V6.

This would eliminate the cap and rotor and provide a better spark with three coils instead of one.

All you would need would be a seven slot disk (reluctor) that you could mount on the front of the crank and a bracket to hold the OEM pickup. The disk could even be part of a modified crank pulley. The coils and module could be mounted on a bracket over a 'stub' distributor so you could use your existing spark plug wires.

I'm thinking less than $400 for a convertion kit with new parts? Half that with used parts? Biggest expense - fabrication of the crank trigger disk and bracket.
Would MSD sell their Chev V-8 bracket separately?

pn8600-7.gif
 
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GEN3Typhoon

New member
OK.... so to cut through all the crap.. the ONLY reason why I have not done this is that I did not want to mess with a crank trigger..

What is the part number of the ACCEL dist and why can you use it and not the kick ass MSD that I already have?

I can get the coils and making the harness is no problem.. I am ready for the change.. for me to be a ten second contender I think I am going to need the upgrade.

TIA for any information.
 
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smeagol

Active member
some guys explored the 3.1 route... none of the aftermarket has embraced it.

OEM applications all do their own thing when it comes to cam & crank signals. I'm guessing this is mainly due to OBDII necessities, such as very accurate misfire detection, exacting sequential fuel injection timing and so forth.

Anyhoo, the eDist makes it very simple for you to get a signal to work for any coil on plug setup.

The Accel coil provides 2 signals - a crank reference (same as the stock distributor or a crank trigger would) and a cam signal. The MSD distributor doesn't do the cam signal. No other V6 distributor does both. The late model OEM GM ones provide a cam signal (like Nolan used) and he put a crank trigger on for a crank reference then.
 
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GEN3Typhoon

New member
Sounds good Brian.. any info on what dist that Accel one is?

I have been planning this as a work week for the truck since the plant is shut down and can get my hands on the parts to do this.... I would be interested in playing with it this week... let me know if you have time to share which dist and I will get an eDist...

Very interesting ... (mad scientist look on my face)

EDIT: Ok so I am very interested... I went to Mr. Gasket's website and found the distributor you are talking about.. so I think...

http://www.mrgasket.com/accelpdf/ACCELfuelinjection.pdf

Check out page 6... I don't see one listed for a V6.. I assume there is one or you have a master plan for working around it... at any rate.. I am trying to play techno catch up here and understand where you are at.

Like I said... plant shut down this week.. I got the truck back together today already.... expected the few things I wanted to do to take longer.
 
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TyMeUp

New member
smeagol said:
some guys explored the 3.1 route... none of the aftermarket has embraced it.
Click to expand...
Doesn't look like they've embraced hardly anything for the SyTy's V-6. All I see is V-8 applications. No $$ in a limited number of customers, I suppose.

OEM applications all do their own thing when it comes to cam & crank signals. I'm guessing this is mainly due to OBDII necessities, such as very accurate misfire detection, exacting sequential fuel injection timing and so forth.
Click to expand...
That's the beauty of the GM DIS (Direct Ignition System). It's OBD I just like the SyTy's system. There is no cam sensor required (3.1L's were simultaneous injection, as is the SyTy system). It's uses a very basic magnetic pickup (more rugged than the Buick's Hall Effects). And, it will connect up to the original wiring from the ECM so normal timing advance and knock retard are retained. The module even has a tach out signal.

But WTH, I'm just an old guy looking to get the most bang for my bucks. I will add this to my list of things to build/play around with someday.

BTW what are the $$$ numbers for the eDist - COP system? Or, shouldn't I ask.
 
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TURBO TY

New member
hey brian, quick?, i just got the new super chevy mag, in it i found MSD's new CPC digital ignition system. Coil Per Cylinder. it is very similar to the edist system. you can get the coils, harness and even the cam sensor, dis plug for a six cylinder gm. would you be able to use the accel distributor, ls1 coils and msd coil harness for a gm six cyl part num 7609 and make it basically a plug and play and delete the crank trigger?
 
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smeagol

Active member
T66Typhoon said:
Sounds good Brian.. any info on what dist that Accel one is?

I have been planning this as a work week for the truck since the plant is shut down and can get my hands on the parts to do this.... I would be interested in playing with it this week... let me know if you have time to share which dist and I will get an eDist...

Very interesting ... (mad scientist look on my face)

EDIT: Ok so I am very interested... I went to Mr. Gasket's website and found the distributor you are talking about.. so I think...

http://www.mrgasket.com/accelpdf/ACCELfuelinjection.pdf

Check out page 6... I don't see one listed for a V6.. I assume there is one or you have a master plan for working around it... at any rate.. I am trying to play techno catch up here and understand where you are at.

Like I said... plant shut down this week.. I got the truck back together today already.... expected the few things I wanted to do to take longer.
Click to expand...

That's the type of distributor you'd need. The 4.3 app is new. Ken (warmpancakes) works for Accel now, and assures us the 4.3 V6 distributor is available. I think he posted the necessary part number in the lounge. I still want to see some more details on it. I'm not sure Ken has run it with the eDist to verify 100% that it will work, but I don't see any problems.

As far as the 3.1 - I believe they couldn't get it working 100% correctly in the syty app, and it may have required some code changes to work. Also that is still a wasted spark.. so the LS1 coils are ahead again.

The MSD system is pretty nice, but expensive. It uses *MSD* coils, not LS1...so the harness is useless. The whole MSD thing uses one of their new modules, and all timing is controlled by it. Nice system for a carb setup, or an older EFI retrofit and so forth, but i don't think it's going to help us.

The rest of the guys need to sweet talk Ken & Nick... talk Ken into getting Nick a distributor, then Nick can mock up a complete harness for LS1 coils & the Accel distributor, so it is plug n play. Then he can either make up those harnesses, or better yet, send it to Casper's and they can duplicate it on demand for any syty owner. Once that is done the difficulty will be just mounting the LS1 coils and setting the distributor up. So then you sweet talk Mike Lee into making up a bracket for the 4.3 for LS1 coils to mount to, or just buy a set of his valve covers and he can mod it for LS1 coils (speaking for mike here, no clue if he'd want such a project).

Ideally, you'd want to be able to use the LS1 plug wires, but that may not be an option for some people (guys with headers etc).
 
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Irid

New member
Please god, make it happen...

"The rest of the guys need to sweet talk Ken & Nick... talk Ken into getting Nick a distributor, then Nick can mock up a complete harness for LS1 coils & the Accel distributor, so it is plug n play. Then he can either make up those harnesses, or better yet, send it to Casper's and they can duplicate it on demand for any syty owner. Once that is done the difficulty will be just mounting the LS1 coils and setting the distributor up. So then you sweet talk Mike Lee into making up a bracket for the 4.3 for LS1 coils to mount to, or just buy a set of his valve covers and he can mod it for LS1 coils (speaking for mike here, no clue if he'd want such a project). "
 
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