Popsickle sticks??

[WyoSyclone]

Back when I raced 340 Mopars in the late '70's we used to install small dams in the intake manifolds called popsickle sticks... that's kind of what they looked like, but were made of aluminum and welded to the floor of certain manifold runners - was it 4 and 7? I can't remember. We'd experiment with different height 'sticks' on the flow bench till we had almost the same flow via each runner.

Anyway, I've searched and read a few posts about the uneven flow characteristics of our stock manifolds. Has anyone added popsickle sticks to even out flow in our stock intake manifolds? I'm thinking about buying a stock upper and lower, building a flow bench, and experimenting with this.... maybe a good Winter project?

Any input?

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

was that before they invented the turbocharger? :lol: boosted air flow is different than n/a. Although would be curious to see if said popsicle sticks would make a difference at all.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

was that before they invented the turbocharger? :lol: boosted air flow is different than n/a. Although would be curious to see if said popsicle sticks would make a difference at all.

You've got it all wrong, Mike... I was born in 1958, not 1858...
Yup, the flow is way different in boosted as opposed to n/a applications... n/a very sensitive to flow restrictions, boosted mostly sensitive to volumetric efficiencies of each intake runner, and of the manifold itself. I'm not real sure how turbulent or laminar airflow plays into the equation in each situation - I'm sure somewhat, otherwise GM wouldn't have developed Vortecs...

Does anyone have a link to a good technical discusssion on this topic??

 

[boost]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

-turbo buicks are known for unequal flow thru all cylinders. RJ racing designed a device to even out the cylinders. works great, everyone uses them myself included. checkout his website and /or do a search on turbobuick.com. these will not work on our trucks but may give you some ideas.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

Thanks for the tip Boost.... I'll start doing some research.
....Rob

 

[Aeroking]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

another thing to ponder, when we built dirt track motors, I would put larger RR rockers on the 4 outer corners, so that the valves on the corners would stay open longer. because the air had further to travel than to the center 4 cylinders.

i dont know if it helped, but i remember doing it.

probably wouldn't help in our application being a 5.0 stang style intake, but for guys running a singleplane carbstyle intake, it might make a difference.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

Back when I raced 340 Mopars in the late '70's we used to install small dams in the intake manifolds called popsickle sticks... that's kind of what they looked like, but were made of aluminum and welded to the floor of certain manifold runners - was it 4 and 7? I can't remember. We'd experiment with different height 'sticks' on the flow bench till we had almost the same flow via each runner.

Anyway, I've searched and read a few posts about the uneven flow characteristics of our stock manifolds. Has anyone added popsickle sticks to even out flow in our stock intake manifolds? I'm thinking about buying a stock upper and lower, building a flow bench, and experimenting with this.... maybe a good Winter project?

Any input?

I'm kinda already working on this too... would be interested to see what you come up with.
Surplus Center has some great vacuum motors for your flowbench.

But, yes, I strongly suspect you could do something similar to the RJC power plate only for the SyTy manifold. Would take a fair amount of research to get it right. I suspect the characteristics change under higher pressures/compressor flow as well.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

I suspect the characteristics change under higher pressures/compressor flow as well.

I agree with you Dig... one of the reasons everyone goes with the box plenum for high horsepower applications.... I think it would be really nice to get this figured out so that anyone with a stock manifold could just take it apart, make a few modifications following some good instructions, and suddenly have sparkplugs that read more evenly, a little better idle, and a little more power.... I'll look at those vacuum motors you suggested.. thanks!

 

[Foot Performance]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

I agree with you Dig... one of the reasons everyone goes with the box plenum for high horsepower applications.... I think it would be really nice to get this figured out so that anyone with a stock manifold could just take it apart, make a few modifications following some good instructions, and suddenly have sparkplugs that read more evenly, a little better idle, and a little more power.... I'll look at those vacuum motors you suggested.. thanks!

My thought is if you get them all to flow evenly (this is what you are wanting to do correct)

than why obstruct the big ports and not just make the smaller bigger???( atleast on the lower intake)


You get a working flow bench and start messing with this stuff the Okla. guy are gunna be over every weekend (atleast me :rotf: )

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

My thought is if you get them all to flow evenly (this is what you are wanting to do correct)

than why obstruct the big ports and not just make the smaller bigger???( atleast on the lower intake)


You get a working flow bench and start messing with this stuff the Okla. guy are gunna be over every weekend (atleast me :rotf: )

Hey Brandon... you've got that right... I just want the flow to be even and as high as possible without restrictions... I've never had the manifold off, or had a chance to look at the inside of one so it will be interesting to see what can be done. I'll keep you updated on what I manage to get put together in starting this little 'experiment'.

 

[Foot Performance]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

Hey Brandon... you've got that right... I just want the flow to be even and as high as possible without restrictions... I've never had the manifold off, or had a chance to look at the inside of one so it will be interesting to see what can be done. I'll keep you updated on what I manage to get put together in starting this little 'experiment'.

Yeah if you get something made i would buy a spare intake and see what we could do anyways :tup:

 

[Christian Dionne]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

-turbo buicks are known for unequal flow thru all cylinders. RJ racing designed a device to even out the cylinders. works great, everyone uses them myself included. checkout his website and /or do a search on turbobuick.com. these will not work on our trucks but may give you some ideas.

I asked them back in early 2001 if they wanted a top end from a Syclone to make us one. They weren't sure if there was enough market to warrant them. I believe there were over 26k TurboBuicks made... of course less then 5k SyTy's. I've always wanted to experiment with this, I know John (WindedV6) has spoke about the sparkplug readings being off with big power on stock intake. Maybe someone can contact them again to see if they're up for it?

 

[vortecfiero]

Re: Popsickle sticks??

another difference in our application is that we are running dry manifolds
old school carbed manifolds are wet manifolds as they flow both air and
fuel.

One of the major wet manifold manufacturers sells "turtles" that are placed
on the bottom of the plenum. I believe they are used to avoid puddling, which
is when the air/fuel mixture separates in the slower areas and when the mix
is forced to make directions changes. The turtles have ridges in them to
speed up the flow in slow areas.

Perhaps these "popsicle sticks" are doing the same sort of thing ?