Questions about the 20G setup...

[ticlone]

For those of you that are using a 20G setup, I have a few questions.
1. Does it require an external wastegate?
2. Do the larger exhaust housings (8cm2 - 14cm2) have internal wastegates?
3. If they do, are the internal WGs' flow/control characteristics any better than on the stock exhaust housing?
4. If the 20G with the largest exhaust housing requires an external WG, is it worth the bang for the buck when comparing this to a PTE or RPM setup.
5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you do a 20G with an external WG, your cost is going to look something like this:

20G 14cm2 - +$700
ITS minigate - $250
WG flange and custom welding - +/- $200
20G 3" DP - + $450
Misc hardware - $?

total = +/- $1600

6. Does the Mitsu 20G perform on the level with the PTE or ITS turbos?

 

[JSM]

Re: Questions about the 20G setup...

For those of you that are using a 20G setup, I have a few questions.
1. Does it require an external wastegate?

NO!
2. Do the larger exhaust housings (8cm2 - 14cm2) have internal wastegates?

YES!

3. If they do, are the internal WGs' flow/control characteristics any better than on the stock exhaust housing?

NO!

4. If the 20G with the largest exhaust housing requires an external WG, is it worth the bang for the buck when comparing this to a PTE or RPM setup.

see above

5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you do a 20G with an external WG, your cost is going to look something like this:

20G 14cm2 - +$700
ITS minigate - $250
WG flange and custom welding - +/- $200
20G 3" DP - + $450
Misc hardware - $?

total = +/- $1600

6. Does the Mitsu 20G perform on the level with the PTE or ITS turbos?

what are your goals? If you put a 20g on a 10sec built it will not perform as well as say a pte70, if you put a pte70 on a stock motor, the 20g will probably outperform it. So to say one is better than the other, depends on a ton of factors. I had a 20g. Good bolt on turbo, simple mod with some work can provide good boost control via internal gate for a 11 sec truck, isn't turbo I would choose. For a street truck, basically stock I would consider it.

 

[DanenGraham]

Yeah, if your looking to keep the stock set up (heads, cam, stall) you could go with the 20G and do some porting of the wastegate. It would do a lot better than stock. But if your going for anything faster, might as well go big or go home.

I just ordered a an RPM kit, total came out to be $2300+ so if your looking at spending 1600 for just a 20G cost is diff, but not by that much.

 

[Ian Turgeon]

Re: Questions about the 20G setup...

For those of you that are using a 20G setup, I have a few questions.
1. Does it require an external wastegate?
2. Do the larger exhaust housings (8cm2 - 14cm2) have internal wastegates?
3. If they do, are the internal WGs' flow/control characteristics any better than on the stock exhaust housing?
4. If the 20G with the largest exhaust housing requires an external WG, is it worth the bang for the buck when comparing this to a PTE or RPM setup.
5. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you do a 20G with an external WG, your cost is going to look something like this:

20G 14cm2 - +$700
ITS minigate - $250
WG flange and custom welding - +/- $200
20G 3" DP - + $450
Misc hardware - $?

total = +/- $1600

6. Does the Mitsu 20G perform on the level with the PTE or ITS turbos?

heres my take.

Always think about turbo/motor/trans combinations. Erue has expressed his ideas about this, and I totally agree and understand. Although big turbos work and generate good 1/4 times with stock motors. You loose a lot of the drivability and in reality, the satisfaction level of the truck suffers. Each turbo has a specific TC, head, valve, and cam combo that would make it work best in wide operating conditions.

This combo entirely depends on your goals and preferences.

as far as the questions above go:
require an external? No. It is possible to get acceptable boost control using the integral gate.

( I have several reasons why I bought my gate, and will continue to use it
1:it fixed all my boost control issues with my stock turbo
Yes, I could have tweaked and modified the stock wastegate till it worked.
2: its overkill. I like overkill when it comes to some things. I have a wastegate that I'll never reach the limits of.
3: its a consistant control as I upgrade, I dont need to worry about it no matter what turbo/exhaust combo I end up with.
4: potential performance gains. Hot exhaust is vented away from my restrictive downpipe, doesnt impede on exhaust flow, and can flatten boost lines to the capabilities of my controller.

exhaust housings come with integral gates? Yes, I havnt seen any that apply to the td06H that dont. Im not sure on what we really have availible to the td06h, I know there is a 14, and a 12. Im pretty sure there is a 10, but I dont think I've ever heard of an 8cm (which is the stock td06 size-no the td06h doesnt fit in the td06 housing).

Do the wastegates flow better? No, however you can port them, install a bigger puck, upgrade the canister, and open the service port/run a 3" dp with a collector. All can help control, but arent necissary as a whole. You may be able to achieve acceptable boost control with little money/work.

If I were aiming for a one-stop shop at turbo upgrades, I would go with a package deal for sure. get a proven pte with dp in the range you want, You can always upgrade as the pte exhaust housing/dp has become a good pillar to work off.

Figure out how fast you want to go and what sort of characteristics you want out of your truck (after-all its not as easy as saying FASTER!). Do you want a low slung, traffic putzer that can turn its ugly head when mashed? Do you want an all around quick machine that performs well in normal driving conditions?

 

[ticlone]

Hey fellas thanks for the comments and opinions.

The goal is always to run as fast as possible. Leaning more towards 11.90s and streetable in the near future.

I'm going with a progessive Alky setup next. Everything is stock except ATR catback exhaust, AUX-cooler, Ultimate chip, AFPR, Wabro fuelpump and TCC-lockup switch. I've just finished porting/polishing the stock exhaust housing and will be bolting it back on today.

Next will be a trans filter/cooler setup and probably a throttle-stop

I've run 13.17 1/4
1.88 60'
102mph

with this setup, minus that porting on the turbo.

My 60' and reaction times are all over the place, because of the me always pushing the tires thru lights.

 

[Ian Turgeon]

good mph, you should be able to net a 12 on that with a good 1.7s 60' bite.

theres a couple of 20gs in the 11.7-11.9 range with tuning, dig for one. Most I do see reside in the 12.20-12.50 range when running pretty good. 11's are posible, but your most likely going to have to do some work go get it around there.

if I was looking for 11.99s consistantly and easily, I would go with a little more.

Personally, I'd like to rip one of those 11.99's, and be happy with a 12.20ish street tune on alky.

 

[ticlone]

All of the advice that I'm receiving is pretty much what I had in mind.

I leaning towards one of the RPM staged kits, but I'll be sticking with the stock heads and cam until at least next winter or fall at the earliest. That's why I'm trying to get this settled in my mind once and for all.

I will be bumping up to a 2800/3000 convertor prior to buying the turbo kit, unless RPM ("Mike") runs a special on a turbo kit/convertor buy!

Thought I'd throw a plug out just in case Mike is listening!

Anyone running an ITS turbo?

 

[smeagol]

If you are shooting for 11s, I'd just go straight to one of Mike's kits; preferably one with the external. Not that the integral won't work, but if this is one of the 'stages' your truck would go through, meaning you may try different turbos in the future, the external wastegate will work with all of 'em. The integral setup may be a bit more finicky with different sized turbos, different ported/unported wastegate ports and so forth.

ITS stuff is good quality; tell Mike what you are looking for, and I'm sure he'll give you good options. Just make sure you know what you actually want :wink: With a Syty, going too big with the turbo will yield a crappy performing vehicle. It's better to err on the side of too small, esp. when stepping up to a Garrett style turbo. I can't stress this enough. With other vehicles, it just means a bit more lag, but considering the limited powerband of a stock motor Syty, going to a turbo that is too large usually means a laggy dog of a vehicle, until you are in 3rd gear and locked up.

 

[ticlone]

Yeah I'm considering the size of the turbo also, because I'd like to expand on down the road.

I want to start with something that'll push the Ultimate for stock, stock trans, injectors, heads and cam close to edge, but not over it.

I'm thinking that a te44 sized turbo, 3000 stall and ALKY will get me close to 11.90s.