Rebuilding ty #284

BMFB

BMFB

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So i finally got the motor out, and undressed, and apart and i found my problem, the front main bearing and the second one back are thrashed, they didnt spin, but they definently have some texture to them...1 more than 2...

so, im gonna take it to a machine shop tomorrow, and see if its salvageable. All the rod bearings look good, and i cant find anything else wrong, but i dont know what i can get ground from a crank. ive heard the caps in a syty are diff, but are the cranks the same? like could i pull the crank from a low mile 4.3 and have it work? im on a bit of a budget, and i know that everyone says i need eagle rods and forged pistons...i dont know if im gonna be able to afford that. Im really not looking to make more power, what i was making was great, but making it stronger might not be bad. everyone says you need to put 6 grand into a rebuild to make it decent, that seems excessive for just a stock truck, (and for 6 grand id say to hell with it and put an ls-1 in...)

but id like to throw maybe 18 psi on it, and do it safly, when i had the truck running i was running 18 and it was making great power, and i didnt have any real knock, but this has been an issue for along time, and i thought it was the cross pipe banging on the frame...I was wrong.

any advice on it? if anyone has any performance parts they're throwing away i could take off their hands maybe? :D
 
BMFB

BMFB

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Re: Rebuilding ty #284

OK, so ive talked to a few machine shops and i think im going with rat tech. im going to take the crank and block their tomorrow and have him decide weather it can be saved or not, i also talked to a couple junk yards and found they will let me have a crank out of any motor i want for 20 bucks, so i may go that route if i can get out of turning a crank, polishings alot cheaper.

so eagle rods, im lookin at the i beams, they seem reasonable, i see i can get 8 for 220, so i should be able to get 6 for like 170, and i figure they gotta be way stronger than stock. I think the H beams are alot stronger, but im not doing anything that crazy, and its twice the money.

id like to go with some forged pistons, but all the ones i see are like, 9.5 to one and higher, and i think my heads are 60 cc (is that right?) where can i get pistons that are the right ratio?

all in all im gonna try to keep the stock crank profile, but what about 1.6 : 1 rockers? would that change my power curve? like, i dont want to mess with the actual cam size cause i dont wanna mess with the torque converter, but would diff rocker arms change that as well?

any suggestions on what these high boost engines like for clearances, im not looking to change my pan if i can help it, but should i just stick to the stock clearances or go a bit bigger? ive heard good and bad things about high volume pumps... i dont have the reserve oil capacity to do anything like that i don't think...

i think im going to just clean the stock heads back up and keep um, they seemed to do pretty well.
 
gkrcr882

gkrcr882

SyTyless......for now!
Re: Rebuilding ty #284

One thing at a time!

You're on the right track as far as going with upgraded internals. If you want to do a truly stock rebuild, there's no reason not to. Even a fully built engine can be blown up due to detonation, so its not entirely the components fault. Do what your budget suits. Are the rods and pistons all in good condition? Big cost savings there if you decide to reuse them.

1.6 rockers aren't worth it on stock heads, let alone a cam. Head have to match the capability of the cam, and yes, the rocker ratio affects total valve lift. Not much as far as gains on a stock engine.

As far as clearances...some people like to try to get as close to the minimums as possible, but the way I see it, there's a high and low for a reason. Build within the tolerances and you'll be fine.

HV pump isnt necessary IMO. The laws of hydraulics dictate that the pump doesn't create pressure, its the opposition to flow (restriction) that does. With new bearings and tolerances within spec, oil pressure shouldn't be an issue.

Make sure you have the heads gone through as well since they're off. Valve seals and guides being the main thing, especially if you get the startup cloud like the rest of us do :p . Obviously having them checked for flatness and cracks is important too, even though you didn't blow a headgasket. Preventative checks keep nasty surprises from popping up later.
 
BMFB

BMFB

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Re: Rebuilding ty #284

everything looks ok, i wont really know until i go to the machinest tomorrow, seems like a good guy, recommened by a couple people that i know build stuff,

but yea, the rod bearnings seems good, and my cylinder walls look great, everything is super smooth and looks good.

I think im going to go with a meth set up, even if its just a switched one, i dont want to go into this mess again and i thik that will help. ill see what i can do with rods and whatnot, i really hope the machine work doesnt get to crazy, ive never had any done, i dont really know what it costs.
 
gkrcr882

gkrcr882

SyTyless......for now!
Re: Rebuilding ty #284

You're talking high boost and high power to need meth. In that case a well-built engine is the only choice. To use it as a band-aid in place of a good tune is a waste of money. People have gone really fast without it on pump gas.
 
BMFB

BMFB

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Re: Rebuilding ty #284

ive just heard it was a good way to prevent detonation, i didn't really have any before the mains went out, and fromt eh inside of the engine it doesn't look like it was getting any detonation. I jsut thought it was a good idea, but i couldn't wrong. ive been tuning my engine for the last while now, only time i would get any detonation was right when i would get into the throttle sometimes, and it would usually be just enough to kick up 3 or 4 degrees and then it would go away, and not come back, even at 18 psi, so i think iw as doing alright. If i could get away with what im doing without having to buy it then ill be more than happy to
 
midnightbluS10

midnightbluS10

Banned
Re: Rebuilding ty #284

A thread just came up about using meth on a stock truck. Look down a few posts.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=76067

gkrcr882 said:
You're talking high boost and high power to need meth. In that case a well-built engine is the only choice. To use it as a band-aid in place of a good tune is a waste of money. People have gone really fast without it on pump gas.
Click to expand...

Alky only if you're running high boost and making a lot of hp? Says who?
 
BMFB

BMFB

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Re: Rebuilding ty #284

well, i guess i see where hes coming from, i don't actually have any knock issues i just thought it would be a potential saver of future rod bearings
 
gkrcr882

gkrcr882

SyTyless......for now!
Re: Rebuilding ty #284

You shouldn't **need** it with a proper tune, unless you're running lower octane fuel or have some other abnormality. The main purpose of it is knock control (side effect of cooling intake charge), and the probability and severity of knock goes up substantially with higher boost (which makes more power).
 
midnightbluS10

midnightbluS10

Banned
Re: Rebuilding ty #284

I don't think most people use it as a knock reduction tool. As gkrcr882 said, that's using it as a band aid in place of a good tune. Do some reading. Hell, check out the turbo Buick forums. See what people are doing and why. Ask questions. Then make a decision. If it were me, I'd be all over it. You say you've been tuning yourself. Good. Adding alky brings another variable into the equation. Good oppurtunity to learn more about tuning and how to tune for alky.
 
BMFB

BMFB

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Re: Rebuilding ty #284

well, i gotta get it rebuilt first lol. Ill go and talk to my machinist tomorrow and see what he says i need to replace and ill see what i have left in my budget before i go to crazy.
 
BMFB

BMFB

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Re: Rebuilding ty #284

Alright, then man has finally started looking at my engine, hes got it cleaned up and ready to bore. Now come the tough stuff...

I was talking to some people about pistons, and they really seemed to hate hypereutectics, they said that even with my turbo application (stock basically, but with a tune and running at about 18 psi) that i would be better off going with a set of cast pistons before hypers, although forged was undoubtedly the the best...i was surprised to hear that, but any input form you guys on that subject? im looking for a set right now.

Im thinking of going with a high pressure standard volume pump, Keeping the same stock cam if it looks good, and replacing the lifters, and timing set.

id like to get my hands ona set of rods, and this is where i might need a little more help. I was reading around, and i read that rods for an even fire crank (goofy looking stock crank) were around 15 thousands wider than a standard small block. i read that a few places, but he took what seemed to be new rods for a 4.3 and new rods for a 5.7 and the 4.3 rods where around 12 thousands narrower, the opposite of what ive read. if thats true, i could get a nice set of rods pretty cheap, and have them machined cheap, where as before i thought i was limited to the eagle H beams and oliver's. anyone have any idea if im wrong?
 
BMFB

BMFB

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Re: Rebuilding ty #284

I was wondering about rods.

Mine are still good but i notice...a little blued. and its got me scared

Ive heard you could get rods out of a newer style 4.3 and they would fit great, and were stronger. What about the crank too...cause i need a new one and im looking at getting one through a yard and grinding it,
 
Last edited:
BMFB

BMFB

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Re: Rebuilding ty #284

was just hopin for some advice, im heading to the yard tomorrow
 
JSM

JSM

Active member
Re: Rebuilding ty #284

Hyper pistons ARE cast, just a special casting.

forged are basically a casting that is beat into shape under lots or pressure.
 
BMFB

BMFB

Not to scale
Re: Rebuilding ty #284

Ok, this is what i was thinking about doing

first off, im not doing anything to crazy with my truck, my engine died due to an oil pump failure that wiped out my #1 main bearing. everything else in the motor looked great. I was running it with a custom tune that i did myself with code 59, and i was running it at 18psi of boost. its an everyday driver that i get on once and awhile...

now on to what my plan is...that i was just seeing what you guys thought about

First, i need a new crank, i was thinking about getting one from a yard and getting it remachined, this would cost about 150 dollars. Or i could buy one from scat that a cast steel for around 320 dollars, i really like the scat idea...

for pistons the TRWs are unfindable from any company, as speedpro halted production 2 years ago for a factory switch and hasnt cought back up with production. My only other alternative in my budget is to go with something like a keith black hypereutectic piston for around 240 dollars a set, or somekind of straight cast piston, my engine builder doesnt like hypers because of their expansion rates and suggests that a cast would be better, but hes the only one thats ever said that to me...

im reusing my camshaft, but im going to get a new set of lifters from crane that are for the 4.3 roller, those are 160. Im thinking about a new set of springs from summit, theyre pretty cheap, have new retainers, and seals, and should be stiffer than stock, and these motors dont rev to high so they should work.

i can taffor new rods, but my stock rods still look good, so i was thinking of just replacing the bolts with some arp rod bolts. They seem to have worked up to this point, so those with new bolts should be even better.

as much as id love to 4 bolt the block i cant afford it, but im at least going to put new arp studs and nuts in and try to stiffen it up, same for the heads.

gaskets, i was gonna go with some Mr. gaskets head gaskets, those are 50 a piece, im not sure if i need nicer that average intake gaskets, but the rest of the gasket kit is normal.

moly rings, fed bearings, and a crane double roller timing set. ( anyone use the gear sets?)

oil pump is going to be a high pressure regular volume.

cylinders are going 30 over, line bores being checked, heads are being cleaned up, valves done and guides replaced. rods brought back to spec, and the decks checked.

how does this sound to you guys, i know its not the 5 grand block we'd all love, but is it at least as good as it was from the factory?
 
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