Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
- Thread starter BoostedSUV
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WyoSyclone
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
that coil looks pretty old and crusty... you replaced it? If I unplug a plug wire at the coil it a spark will jump over to the firewall from the dizzy. I would think that that coil may have a crack?? I can't see any other reason it would try to jump from the coil post to the outside metal shell.
Have you taken a multimeter to the coil wire to see what the resistance is through it?
that coil looks pretty old and crusty... you replaced it? If I unplug a plug wire at the coil it a spark will jump over to the firewall from the dizzy. I would think that that coil may have a crack?? I can't see any other reason it would try to jump from the coil post to the outside metal shell.
Have you taken a multimeter to the coil wire to see what the resistance is through it?
BoostedSUV
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
I tested the resistance of the coil as per MSD's specs. Here's the thing, I took the MSD coil off and put the stocker back on. The video is of the stocker I had kicking around and threw in there. I took the newer MSD off that was doing the same thing because I thought it was cracked. So 2 different coils and 2 different coil wires.. Same scenario.
I tested the resistance of the coil as per MSD's specs. Here's the thing, I took the MSD coil off and put the stocker back on. The video is of the stocker I had kicking around and threw in there. I took the newer MSD off that was doing the same thing because I thought it was cracked. So 2 different coils and 2 different coil wires.. Same scenario.
WyoSyclone
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
Inspect the coil wire very carefully... bend it in an arc towards the end then roll it while it is still bent in an arc... look for cuts in the insulation to open up as you roll it around. If the wire is good, I'll go back to my original thought on there being a ground problem somewhere in the engine compartment. You can take a 3 foot piece of 10 gauge and hold touch it to one head and to the negative battery post while it's arcing... does it still arc?
Inspect the coil wire very carefully... bend it in an arc towards the end then roll it while it is still bent in an arc... look for cuts in the insulation to open up as you roll it around. If the wire is good, I'll go back to my original thought on there being a ground problem somewhere in the engine compartment. You can take a 3 foot piece of 10 gauge and hold touch it to one head and to the negative battery post while it's arcing... does it still arc?
BoostedSUV
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
Why would suspect a ground problem based on the coil arcing with on one plug wire removed?
A ground has always been a suspect in this issue but I have tracked everything down and can't find anything. All the grounds/straps have been cleaned and replaced. What am I missing?
Why would suspect a ground problem based on the coil arcing with on one plug wire removed?
A ground has always been a suspect in this issue but I have tracked everything down and can't find anything. All the grounds/straps have been cleaned and replaced. What am I missing?
WyoSyclone
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
I'm still thinking about the ground issue trying to zero in on it, could be a false lead...
We do know...
1) your tach sometimes goes crazy during starting and blips up to 6k I think you said.
2) the problem changes with temperature - good when cold, bad when hot. Heat increases resistance in a bad connection.
3) that coil should not be arcing through the boot/wire to the case.
The temp gun will tell us if it's just one or two cylinders causing the problem. That one test will be real useful.
I'm still thinking about the ground issue trying to zero in on it, could be a false lead...
We do know...
1) your tach sometimes goes crazy during starting and blips up to 6k I think you said.
2) the problem changes with temperature - good when cold, bad when hot. Heat increases resistance in a bad connection.
3) that coil should not be arcing through the boot/wire to the case.
The temp gun will tell us if it's just one or two cylinders causing the problem. That one test will be real useful.
bezerk
New member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
have you swapped out the feulrail? since obvious it ain't a timing thing anymore. i suggested it before,in your number 1 version of this you sad the problem started with after you did the feulpressure thing? maybe your shredar valve broke somthing off and now blocking something in the feulrail on 5 and 3?
have you swapped out the feulrail? since obvious it ain't a timing thing anymore. i suggested it before,in your number 1 version of this you sad the problem started with after you did the feulpressure thing? maybe your shredar valve broke somthing off and now blocking something in the feulrail on 5 and 3?
WyoSyclone
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
Looking over your logs again, your AFR Targets are all over the map in closed loop. When the problem occurs your AFR TGT is as high as 19.1. Your O2 mv's are clear down in the low 30's. The AFR's start off relatively correct then gradually climb till they're up in the high 18's/low 19's. I know you replaced the O2 sensor (was it a new one?) - have you inspected the O2 wiring? Your TPS and map are demanding a certain amount of fuel based on the O2 feedback... it's like the O2 suddenly just starts shutting down.
I know Nolan is one of the true tuning gurus, so he must know what he's doing on the timing. I guess I need someone to explain it to me... On Matt's log as the timing steps up the problem with the AFR's get worse (I'll capture a screen image and post it). I'm having a hard time understanding how we can even run over 40 degrees of advance - at that level of advance it seems there would be no reference pulse from the trigger circuit to even work off of?? Is there so much advance that it's not even triggering the injectors?? I'm confused on this one... I'm off to search google for a while on timing....
Looking over your logs again, your AFR Targets are all over the map in closed loop. When the problem occurs your AFR TGT is as high as 19.1. Your O2 mv's are clear down in the low 30's. The AFR's start off relatively correct then gradually climb till they're up in the high 18's/low 19's. I know you replaced the O2 sensor (was it a new one?) - have you inspected the O2 wiring? Your TPS and map are demanding a certain amount of fuel based on the O2 feedback... it's like the O2 suddenly just starts shutting down.
I know Nolan is one of the true tuning gurus, so he must know what he's doing on the timing. I guess I need someone to explain it to me... On Matt's log as the timing steps up the problem with the AFR's get worse (I'll capture a screen image and post it). I'm having a hard time understanding how we can even run over 40 degrees of advance - at that level of advance it seems there would be no reference pulse from the trigger circuit to even work off of?? Is there so much advance that it's not even triggering the injectors?? I'm confused on this one... I'm off to search google for a while on timing....
Last edited:
BoostedSUV
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
Rene when I changed injectors I looked over the fuel rail and blew it out with air. This problem started wayyy before the install of the elec FP gauge. That just seemed to trigger it and make it worse. Whether I moved a wire or it was total coincidence I don't know.
Rob, the AFR TGT is the the wideband readout.. When that reads lean (19) the O2 will also read lean (30). All the AFR TGT does is display the WBO2.
Rene when I changed injectors I looked over the fuel rail and blew it out with air. This problem started wayyy before the install of the elec FP gauge. That just seemed to trigger it and make it worse. Whether I moved a wire or it was total coincidence I don't know.
Rob, the AFR TGT is the the wideband readout.. When that reads lean (19) the O2 will also read lean (30). All the AFR TGT does is display the WBO2.
WyoSyclone
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
Yup, I understand that.... I'm trying to figure out why you're going lean. Do I remember right that you have the PLX wideband display? If so, how do you have it hooked up??
Yup, I understand that.... I'm trying to figure out why you're going lean. Do I remember right that you have the PLX wideband display? If so, how do you have it hooked up??
BoostedSUV
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
Yup, I have the PLX WBO2 with the PLX patch and its wired up according to digs website. I can't remember the exact terminals but the signal wire is right across from the purple O2 signal wire and the black is grounded elsewhere on a separated connector. (B9 and F14 sound close?) I also have the capacitor installed in between the ground and the signal wire.
Prior to having a WBO2 I had an A/F gauge in there years ago. That too would bounce around but when the truck would hit the "lean spots" and pop out the exhaust it too would show dead lean. I only had that gauge t-tapped into he purple O2 wire.
Yup, I have the PLX WBO2 with the PLX patch and its wired up according to digs website. I can't remember the exact terminals but the signal wire is right across from the purple O2 signal wire and the black is grounded elsewhere on a separated connector. (B9 and F14 sound close?) I also have the capacitor installed in between the ground and the signal wire.
Prior to having a WBO2 I had an A/F gauge in there years ago. That too would bounce around but when the truck would hit the "lean spots" and pop out the exhaust it too would show dead lean. I only had that gauge t-tapped into he purple O2 wire.
WyoSyclone
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
I was talking to a friend of mine today who owns a really cool 66 Mustang running FAST and MSD... his was running really strange until he moved the MSD box away from the FAST box this past week. Is your MSD sitting on top of your WB wires from the O2 sensor? It's a long shot, but hey, we're all just kind of grasping at straws without being there
I was talking to a friend of mine today who owns a really cool 66 Mustang running FAST and MSD... his was running really strange until he moved the MSD box away from the FAST box this past week. Is your MSD sitting on top of your WB wires from the O2 sensor? It's a long shot, but hey, we're all just kind of grasping at straws without being there
BoostedSUV
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
MSD box has only been on the truck for 3 months, this problem has been in this truck for 4 years :tdown:
MSD box has only been on the truck for 3 months, this problem has been in this truck for 4 years :tdown:
BoostedSUV
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
well I finally got the Temp gun out and checked the exhaust manifolds tonight... everything is within a few degrees of each other at idle, about 460ish degrees. I brought the truck up to the point where I can hear it breaking it up and held it there. I started checking each cylinder and again all 6 cylinders were within a few degrees of each other, about 530ish degrees. From what I can tell I'm not losing one cylinder and what ever is happening is happing across all 6 cylinders.
I also swapped harmonic balancers and verified the TDC mark and it was correct so my base timing is correct on the truck. I managed to break the O-scope the first day so I'm waiting for a replacement
well I finally got the Temp gun out and checked the exhaust manifolds tonight... everything is within a few degrees of each other at idle, about 460ish degrees. I brought the truck up to the point where I can hear it breaking it up and held it there. I started checking each cylinder and again all 6 cylinders were within a few degrees of each other, about 530ish degrees. From what I can tell I'm not losing one cylinder and what ever is happening is happing across all 6 cylinders.
I also swapped harmonic balancers and verified the TDC mark and it was correct so my base timing is correct on the truck. I managed to break the O-scope the first day so I'm waiting for a replacement
nallj92
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
when you swapped your Memcal did you swap the entire unit with the ESC circuits for a new one or did you just swap the Eprom chip? Maybe the ESC circuitry is bad/intermittant. There is also a chip under the ESC pins, but I'm not sure what that controls. ESC stuff also?
Looking at the 2nd pic down on this link, the ESC is on the left in case you didnt know.
http://syclone.invisibill.net/memcal.html
if not, carry on......
when you swapped your Memcal did you swap the entire unit with the ESC circuits for a new one or did you just swap the Eprom chip? Maybe the ESC circuitry is bad/intermittant. There is also a chip under the ESC pins, but I'm not sure what that controls. ESC stuff also?
Looking at the 2nd pic down on this link, the ESC is on the left in case you didnt know.
http://syclone.invisibill.net/memcal.html
if not, carry on......
BoostedSUV
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
not sure what you're asking? I just took the stock memcal out of the ECM and piggy backed it with the Moates adapter. ESC portion of the chip actually had a few jumper legs break off of the circuit board but I soldered them back on. I don't have another stock memcal to try :dunno:
not sure what you're asking? I just took the stock memcal out of the ECM and piggy backed it with the Moates adapter. ESC portion of the chip actually had a few jumper legs break off of the circuit board but I soldered them back on. I don't have another stock memcal to try :dunno:
WyoSyclone
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
Seems like that could certainly be an issue, or cause. Any time those legs don't contact perfectly in the socket you can get strange things going on.. all this time I thought you'd changed the entire memcal. We need to see if we can find you another memcal.
Seems like that could certainly be an issue, or cause. Any time those legs don't contact perfectly in the socket you can get strange things going on.. all this time I thought you'd changed the entire memcal. We need to see if we can find you another memcal.
BoostedSUV
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
The factory memcal is the about the only thing I haven't changed... Didn't think it really did much for engine management anymore. :dunno:
The factory memcal is the about the only thing I haven't changed... Didn't think it really did much for engine management anymore. :dunno:
TYTILIDIE
METH HEAD
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
When I went to a 20g(on stock ignition) I couldn't run any more than .28 or I would get spark blow out or it would break up, at 12psi every time. This wont happen to all trucks but a lower gap is needed in some situations on a bigger turbo set up. I think .22 is awfully narrow though. With MSD and the 67gtq turbo I have mine gapped at .30 and this seems to be working very well.
When I went to a 20g(on stock ignition) I couldn't run any more than .28 or I would get spark blow out or it would break up, at 12psi every time. This wont happen to all trucks but a lower gap is needed in some situations on a bigger turbo set up. I think .22 is awfully narrow though. With MSD and the 67gtq turbo I have mine gapped at .30 and this seems to be working very well.
BoostedSUV
Active member
Re: Still Trying.. (One Last Shot pt2)
I had the plugs gapped at .035 prior to installing the MSD ignition and I was getting spark blow-out at 14psi... felt as if the truck was on a rev limiter. I normally run .025 gap but I dropped it to .022 just to try something. My friends mitsu 3000GT VR4 TT runs .018 gap and runs 10's... obviously a different animal but with boost applications tight gaps are required. Wouldn't hurt to open the gap and put another set of plugs in but I'm having a hard time making sense out of it...
I had the plugs gapped at .035 prior to installing the MSD ignition and I was getting spark blow-out at 14psi... felt as if the truck was on a rev limiter. I normally run .025 gap but I dropped it to .022 just to try something. My friends mitsu 3000GT VR4 TT runs .018 gap and runs 10's... obviously a different animal but with boost applications tight gaps are required. Wouldn't hurt to open the gap and put another set of plugs in but I'm having a hard time making sense out of it...