tallcoolone
New member
Does chronic/ 1 gallon per tankful of Toluene affect O2 sensor;over last two years (over 3000miles) I have been using Toluene, but wonder if it is affecting O2 sensor(too rich Code)??Any input appreciated....
toluene & o2 sensor
- Thread starter tallcoolone
- Start date
Lynn D. Brown
New member
Don't see any reason why Toluene or any organic molecule would hurt an O2 sensor. Lead (Pb) forms a solid deposit that blinds off the surface. Works the same way w the Cat Con catalyst. Sulfur compounds also form some blinding solid compounds and that's one reason why there is a big drive to get the Sulfur out of gasoline and all other transportation fuels.
tallcoolone
New member
followup question
followup question
I have a digital meter; how would I use it to check to see if its functional? Any ideas appreciated...Thanks
followup question
I have a digital meter; how would I use it to check to see if its functional? Any ideas appreciated...Thanks
Lynn D. Brown
New member
What kind of a digital meter - A Voltmeter ?
The key thing U need to check for is that the O2 sensor is cycling between Rich and Lean, i.e the Voltages will be cycling. I guess a dead one would show a roughly constant V.
Don't know if a Voltmeter will show or not. Typically a Scan tool is used - hard to do anything on these new cars w/o one. U will look for O2 V outputs and the so called "O2 crosscounts".
The key thing U need to check for is that the O2 sensor is cycling between Rich and Lean, i.e the Voltages will be cycling. I guess a dead one would show a roughly constant V.
Don't know if a Voltmeter will show or not. Typically a Scan tool is used - hard to do anything on these new cars w/o one. U will look for O2 V outputs and the so called "O2 crosscounts".
Daron
Active member
http://www.wps.com/LPG/o2sensor.html
Has some testing procedures..
Pretty cool link. It has some interesting stuff:
"They also included an A/F ratio graph that confirmed what I saw on the chassis
dyno with my car ... namely that under boost the car should hover around 12.5:1
for best HP and detonation resistance. A crude ASCII rendering of the graph is
below:
***see above link for the graph**
-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National: More *POWER*! More *BOOST*! Urrrrr! Urrrrr!
"
From:
Steve, I saw your post on rec.autos..... and thought I'd lend you my
?.02. Somone on the Corvete mialing list had a similar type of
question, so I thought I'd just copy the note over to you too. If you
have any questions, EMAIL me. For some reason I can't post to
rec.autos.
Standard O2 sensors basically measure rich or lean operation. Their
response is very nonlinear and can not be used to measure precise A/F.
In computer controlled cars, the computer operates on a limit cycle,
switching between rich and lean in order to average out to a
particular A/F (usually stoich.). Sensors to measure actual A/F and
not just rich/lean do exist, they are called Universal Exhaust Gas
Oxygen sensors (UEGO) or Linear EGO sensors. Essentially a UEGO
sensor is two EGO sensors physically linked. One half of the sensor
is exposed to exhaust gas, the other to O2. To make a long, complex
story short, just as O2 causes a potential difference across the
walls of the O2 sensor, pumping current into the O2 sensor can cause
O2 ions to flow through the sensor. By measuring how much current
must be pumped into the sensor in order to maintain a constant voltage
across the O2 detecting cell (450 mV), the A/F can be determined.
These devices are common place in dyno/engine calibration labs (at
least here at Motorola and at Ford). The interface circuit for the
sensor is extremely complex, as the sensor must be maintained in a
closed loop and the currents measured are very small (into the tens of
uA's). Besides having to control the O2 detecting and pumping cells,
the heater must also be controlled and maintained at 10V RMS, battery
voltage will burn it out. However, battery voltage (actually 12V
RMS)is used to quickly warm up the sensor, after which the heater
voltage is reduced. Thus, another circuit is used to detect when the
sensor is warm. If current is pumped into a cold sensor, it will
"blacken" and be destroyed. Operating temperature of the sensor is
determined by measuring its electrical impedance.
I worked on such a circuit for Ford a few years back with the
intention of putting it into production vehicles. It turned out that
it was not cost effective for the benefits (at least that was their
reason for killing the project). Instrumentation sensors like this
exist, along with their digital readout, but they cost about ?8K! NTK
(a division of NDK Spark Plug) is a very popular one.
I think that it would be possible to make a crude A/F meter using a
standard ZrO2 EGO sensor and measuring the time that is spent lean (<
450mV) vs. rich (> 450mV). Note that nearly all (if not all) EGO
sensors are actually HEGO sensors, H for heated. With these standard
O2 sensors, battery to the heating element is sufficient"
Pretty good article:
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/dec2002/mech.cfm
Has some testing procedures..
Pretty cool link. It has some interesting stuff:
"They also included an A/F ratio graph that confirmed what I saw on the chassis
dyno with my car ... namely that under boost the car should hover around 12.5:1
for best HP and detonation resistance. A crude ASCII rendering of the graph is
below:
***see above link for the graph**
-- Ken Mosher
-- Buick Grand National: More *POWER*! More *BOOST*! Urrrrr! Urrrrr!
"
From:
Steve, I saw your post on rec.autos..... and thought I'd lend you my
?.02. Somone on the Corvete mialing list had a similar type of
question, so I thought I'd just copy the note over to you too. If you
have any questions, EMAIL me. For some reason I can't post to
rec.autos.
Standard O2 sensors basically measure rich or lean operation. Their
response is very nonlinear and can not be used to measure precise A/F.
In computer controlled cars, the computer operates on a limit cycle,
switching between rich and lean in order to average out to a
particular A/F (usually stoich.). Sensors to measure actual A/F and
not just rich/lean do exist, they are called Universal Exhaust Gas
Oxygen sensors (UEGO) or Linear EGO sensors. Essentially a UEGO
sensor is two EGO sensors physically linked. One half of the sensor
is exposed to exhaust gas, the other to O2. To make a long, complex
story short, just as O2 causes a potential difference across the
walls of the O2 sensor, pumping current into the O2 sensor can cause
O2 ions to flow through the sensor. By measuring how much current
must be pumped into the sensor in order to maintain a constant voltage
across the O2 detecting cell (450 mV), the A/F can be determined.
These devices are common place in dyno/engine calibration labs (at
least here at Motorola and at Ford). The interface circuit for the
sensor is extremely complex, as the sensor must be maintained in a
closed loop and the currents measured are very small (into the tens of
uA's). Besides having to control the O2 detecting and pumping cells,
the heater must also be controlled and maintained at 10V RMS, battery
voltage will burn it out. However, battery voltage (actually 12V
RMS)is used to quickly warm up the sensor, after which the heater
voltage is reduced. Thus, another circuit is used to detect when the
sensor is warm. If current is pumped into a cold sensor, it will
"blacken" and be destroyed. Operating temperature of the sensor is
determined by measuring its electrical impedance.
I worked on such a circuit for Ford a few years back with the
intention of putting it into production vehicles. It turned out that
it was not cost effective for the benefits (at least that was their
reason for killing the project). Instrumentation sensors like this
exist, along with their digital readout, but they cost about ?8K! NTK
(a division of NDK Spark Plug) is a very popular one.
I think that it would be possible to make a crude A/F meter using a
standard ZrO2 EGO sensor and measuring the time that is spent lean (<
450mV) vs. rich (> 450mV). Note that nearly all (if not all) EGO
sensors are actually HEGO sensors, H for heated. With these standard
O2 sensors, battery to the heating element is sufficient"
Pretty good article:
http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/dec2002/mech.cfm
bigtime
Sy-Ty Builder
Re: followup question
Re: followup question
your 02 has a 12volt power, ground, and signal hook the meter between the signal and ground.
Re: followup question
You can check your O2 with a digital multimeter. your looking for switching above and below 450 mv. Depending on your meter is wether or not you will be able to read it. You need a above average meter (fluke 88 or 89) to dampen the readings so you can actually read them.If you are just looking to see if the sensor is working any meter will do, just look for the switching.tallcoolone said:
your 02 has a 12volt power, ground, and signal hook the meter between the signal and ground.