Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

[It's just a six]

Hey guys,

I am trying to tune out some knock & I am currently spraying 100% methanol w/an Alkycontrol system.
I am trying to run about 26 PSi of boost pressure & 91 octane fuel. So far, I seem to have some sort of knocking, even w/setting the timing tables down to 9*/degrees. (maybe too low of timing?)
I am not sure this is possible as not to have any knock while running 91 octane so I am contemplating of trying out some Torco Accelrerator.
I have always heard of this Torco accerator is great stuff.
http://torcoracefuel.net/2-docs/accelerator-blend-chart.gif

I would like to hear from you guys that has had knock issues & say how much knock you had before & after using some Torco & what octane did you increase it to?

Also, if any of you guys have tried Xylene & used Torco & if you notice if one worked better than the other.
Thanks

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Here are a couple of screen shots. 1st is running 2 gallons of xylene with about 3/4 tank of 91 octane.
Second pic is (2) 32 ounce cans of Torco with a full tank (103 octane).

I forgot to set the graph to read WBO2 AFR.... O2mv defaults to 450 due to not having the narrowband connected.

It's not a perfect comparison but it does show a clear difference. Notice the boost level differences.

xylene

Torco

 

[Don W.]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

I spray meth. Fuel is 1/2 tank 91 plus 3 gals 100LL at the track. 16-17# boost. Almost -0- knock. (Mid 12's @ 105) I tried Torco a couple years back saw little difference. BUT, looking back, you could say it was because the tune wasn't correct in the first place.

Do you have a wide band? I seem to think you do. what AFR's are you running? I've seen, and my motor seems to prove it, mid 11's are required when running meth. How Torco would affect that I don't know. However I can say this: Week to week, during race season, I fuel as above. But as I add some 100, I'm adding it to the previous mix which now has some 100 in it. This helps also.

Torco is expensive. For me it's much easier to just buy some 100 at the track. There used to be a "rumor" that just a little leaded (almost everything over 100-102 has some lead) added to 91 would make something over 100 because the lead has such an effect on the 91. No clue if that's true.

HTH

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

xylene

Torco

Thanks Rob,

If I am reading it correctly,,,, I see w/the Xylene, you ran less spark timing of 4.9* less boost 15.3 PSi & had 4.9* of KR.

You were able to run more boost 19.3 PSi, more timing, 13.4* & had zero knock w/the Torco, seems to have worked good for you.:tup:

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Do you have a wide band? I seem to think you do. what AFR's are you running? I've seen, and my motor seems to prove it, mid 11's are required when running meth. How Torco would affect that I don't know. However I can say this: Week to week, during race season, I fuel as above. But as I add some 100, I'm adding it to the previous mix which now has some 100 in it. This helps also.

Torco is expensive. For me it's much easier to just buy some 100 at the track. There used to be a "rumor" that just a little leaded (almost everything over 100-102 has some lead) added to 91 would make something over 100 because the lead has such an effect on the 91. No clue if that's true.
HTH

Don,
I am still experimenting w/the A/F ratios, but I am shooting for low 10.3 A/F ratio @ high boost 26 PSI.

I never heard anyone running mid 11's w/a meth injection kit. But then again, you are only running 16-17 PSI.
It seems the Turbo Buick guys shoot for 10's & even in the 9's. when boosting over 20 psi.
I remember Nolan likes to shoot for 10.8 A/F ratio on pump gas so when adding Meth, you usually do not try to go leaner? Yes/No?

Julio emailed me that " typically most of the Buick guys run 20-22 degree's of timing at 25 PSI"
Julio also said with his Mustang he runs, "9.6:1 afr 18 degree's of timing through a powerglide trans. My knob is at 6.5.

Now, I have never tried to run that much timing, sorta scared to since I have seen up to 10* or so of knock.
At high boost (26 psi) my timing is set to 9* in the 241,257,273,288 columes on the TP5RT timing table, is this too low?

I recently increased the timing to 14.77* & the knock retard did not increase.

Q: Is it possible to run 20-22* of timing, 26 PSI, w/91 octane & spraying meth?
Q: Have any of you guys run 20 + degrees of timing, running 24-26 psi on 91 octane & spraying meth?

It seems most GN guys are running @ least 93 octane pump gas as a base octane.

Thanks Don, BTW, what Alky system are you using?

 

[Don W.]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Julio's meth kit. BTW, I finding that, on my kit anyway, that the controls are extremely sensitive. I use a volt meter to set the "initial." And I do that with the engine running and ramp (I forget Julio's term) set to full. It's the only way I can get an accurate reading.

According to DM I'm running 21*

 

[SYCLONE#1531]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

The torco worked very nice for me when I was running it. The cheapest way to buy it is by the 5 gallon pail. $226/ I would run 93 pump gas with 128 ounces of accelerator in stock 20 gallon tank. The accelerator would have to better your current situation...:2cents:

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Julio's meth kit. BTW, I finding that, on my kit anyway, that the controls are extremely sensitive. I use a volt meter to set the "initial." And I do that with the engine running and ramp (I forget Julio's term) set to full. It's the only way I can get an accurate reading.

According to DM I'm running 21*

Thanks Don,
on your timing table, could you post a snap shot of it here?
Do you run 21* of timing in most of your timing columes?
Yes, the Alky control, controller is very touchy.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

The torco worked very nice for me when I was running it. The cheapest way to buy it is by the 5 gallon pail. $226/ I would run 93 pump gas with 128 ounces of accelerator in stock 20 gallon tank. The accelerator would have to better your current situation...:2cents:

Thanks,
what kind of boost were you running w/the Torco & 93 octane?

 

[SYCLONE#1531]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

I was running 20lbs with my old 2bar Pitbull race chip.. Not sure on what the timing level was with the pitbull..

 

[Don W.]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Thanks Don,
on your timing table, could you post a snap shot of it here?
Do you run 21* of timing in most of your timing columes?
Yes, the Alky control, controller is very touchy.

No timing table. I run a custom chip from Mike at Race Proven Motors. All I can give you is a DM run which I'd be happy to post so you can download it.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

No timing table. I run a custom chip from Mike at Race Proven Motors. All I can give you is a DM run which I'd be happy to post so you can download it.

Sure, send it my way.
Thanks

 

[gnnorthwest]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

We are a Torco distributor and highly recommend it. We have a lot of customers using it in their forced induction cars (GN's, SyTy's, GT-R's, Cobra's, etc).

Give us a call or send an email if you're interested in purchasing Torco from us. We can usually ship it out the same day.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

We are a Torco distributor and highly recommend it. We have a lot of customers using it in their forced induction cars (GN's, SyTy's, GT-R's, Cobra's, etc).

Give us a call or send an email if you're interested in purchasing Torco from us. We can usually ship it out the same day.

Thanks,
I just bought 6 32 oz cans for $113.00 shipped, I suppose that was too much? Or,,, can you beat that price?

 

[SYCLONE#1531]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

I gaurantee you love the stough!! Good luck!!

 

[Don W.]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Sure, send it my way.
Thanks

Here the link to my uploaded DM files. The 2 you probably want are 74 & 75

Notice how the AFR target (WB data) goes rich. My goal, correct me if I'm wrong, is to flatten that line by increasing initial and reducing the rate. Does that make sense?

http://www.sonic.net/~donpris/DM files/

 

[It's just a six]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Thank you Don

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Are you sure you are spraying enough meth? If you set your meth kit up correctly, you should see 0 knock. On 20psi and 20* of timing spraying about 30% meth(100%methanol) I get 0 KR. One way to know if you are using it right, in my experience anyway, is that your IAT's go way down. On a 80* day I can see my IAT's go from a solid 120* all the way down to 65* in a matter of two seconds. If your IAT's are in the 100* area then you aren't spraying enough which is really not using the alky system for what it was intended for. Of course I could be wrong and I am sure some will argue but hey, it's worked for me.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Mike,

Where do you get the 30% number? I understand the rest and will work on increasing. On my truck at least additional meth seems to produce knock. False knock maybe?

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Torco accelerator VS. Xylene

Let's say under boost your MAP area has numbers in the 60's for a VE. Generally, I remove 20-30% of that number to attain what I am explaining, which in this example would leave us a number in the 40's. Otherwise, I get knock and if I don't get knock I get a nice bog. If I don't get that, I don't get the greatest of performance. If you run alky over a stockish tune you really should only get a slightly lower IAT and less knock or none. When I run my alky like this I am essentially replacing fuel with meth which is hwy I run 100% meth. There have been a lot of arguments over the safety of it but I like the way it feels and performs. It makes a HUGE difference.

In short, the 30% is a number I came up with from the amount of fuel I have had to pull in the past from tuning it in for max performance and cooling effects. I would certainly not recommend taking 30% out at once. I go about 2-4 VE at a time. Wait to get some knock then turn the alky up.