Turbo's like the cold

[kwick6]

Check out the following.
Not sure if this would be good or not, anyone using it?
I just really like how my truck runs when cold, it loves the cool oxygen in the cylinders... then after it warms up, runs like a pig. Maybe this wouldn't be the ideal way to get cold intake temps. I just thought it might not be so bad since your not depending on it as in a WOT situation.

Turbocharged Applications
NOS Turbo Nitrous Systems are designed to be the perfect compliment to a factory or aftermarket turbocharged engine. From a standing start and during low or mid-range RPM "before the turbo is at full boost" nitrous will eliminate all "turbo lag", providing instant torque gains. In addition to adding 30-40% extra HP and torque (depending on the base engine), the nitrous oxide acts as an additional intercooler, as it is injected into the intake at -127¡F and as it mixes with incoming air, the intake charge can drop by as much as 75 degrees F. These kits are fully adjustable for various power settings.

If this is to dangerous, can WI be used as an effective method of cooling? I'm not referring to using it in boost, more of just introducing more oxygen from the water. I guess you couldn't have it on *all* the time, and maybe the atomization would take effect until your @ WOT. Sorry for the rambling.
Forget all that, I just need a really good IC, right?
I just thought it would be cool to flip a switch every once in a while to make the throttle more responsive, and reduce lag.

Scott

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

I'd also like to here some info on this.

 

[kwick6]

Please pay no attention to my mindless ramblings... here is some helpful info...
---------------------------------------------

> >
> I couldn't agree more about
> > nitrous on a turbo motor without forged pistons. You're asking for
trouble.
> > Cheers ,
> > mike V
> > >
> > > My question is about using N20 on a motor that is already boosted.
> > > Seems to me like incresing cylinder pressure like that is just asking
> > > for trouble on a motor without forged pistons, good rods, etc... On
> > > the other hand, I think it'd be EXCELLENT for further cooling the air
> > > charge...
>
> Hi guys, I feel that I must add to this. What you guys fail to see is
> that there is basically no difference between using NOS and turning up
> the boost. Both add oxygen to the mixture, both will destroy the motor
> if used without proper prerequisites, like additional fuel or strong
> enough internal components. I saw someone wrote that using NOS will
> increase chances of detonation 100x, well you can say the same about
> raising boost. In general turbocharged engines respond much better to
> NOS then N/A engines. This is mostly due to the intercooling effect of
> the supercooled NOS and due to the fact that turbocharged engines are
> built to handle extra stress. So yes, it is better and cheaper to just
> turn up the boost and add fuel, but to say that NOS will destroy the
> engine is not correct either. A properly installed and matched to the
> engine NOS system will achieve the same results or better then just
> adding boost and fuel.
> Just my $0.02 worth on the subject.


Yes, but NOS is a bit more violent and uncontrollable than boost. I say
stick to one power-adder, but that's just me. We ran NOS on a ty with stock
motor and an external wastegate. Fueling was adequate, chip had low timing.
Hit the NOS, instant 20psi and lots of detonation. The external was not
enough to vent the exhaust for control. The MAT temps did NOT drop as
expected either. Chamber temps probably went up from extra cylinder
pressure, as big deto was the result. You build up a LOT of exhaust that
can't be vented, and it creates a lot of heat. That is my conclusion on it
at least.

So talking NOS theory on a stock syty is a worthless discussion IMHO. I've
not heard of a stock syty running it successfully. Want to run NOS on a
syty - build the motor. But if you are building the motor, why not spend
the money on a cam/heads/turbo. You don't have to worry about refills of
BOOST :wink:. You can max out the potential of the block on those parts
alone. Many Buick guys have come to the same conclusion. I'm not anti-NOS,
but I think too many people look to it for the answer for their syty's and i
just do NOT see it that way. To work well, i think you have to do a full
buildup designed around NOS. Dry setup with aftermarket ECM, a very
unrestrictive exhaust side (headers, large A/R ratio housing), reliable NOS
solenoid(s). Forged pistons, different heads, maybe ceramic coated
internals. Fueling to support your HP level as well obviously.

my 2 pennies

Brian Green
STG
---------------------------------------------

The thing I was wondering about was the MAT temps, seems that in BG's post that it didn't help, that's what I wanted to know.

There really is no reason to run the NOS if you already have boost, just adds a very nasty variable to the mix. I was just day-dreamin, ya know....instant boost in a turbocharged motor is not how it works, there will be some lag. It can be reduced by means that don't jeapordize your truck every time your foot touches the throttle.

Some will have success with the NOS, I'm just not going there. Above clip from the archives sums it up good. Someday I'll buy a POS with a turbo and play. :grin:

Late,
Scott

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kwick6 on 2002-01-26 00:31 ]</font>

 

[Buster]

On 2002-01-25 01:00, kwick6 wrote:
Check out the following.
Not sure if this would be good or not, anyone using it?
I just really like how my truck runs when cold, it loves the cool oxygen in the cylinders... then after it warms up, runs like a pig. Maybe this wouldn't be the ideal way to get cold intake temps. I just thought it might not be so bad since your not depending on it as in a WOT situation.

Turbocharged Applications
NOS Turbo Nitrous Systems are designed to be the perfect compliment to a factory or aftermarket turbocharged engine. From a standing start and during low or mid-range RPM "before the turbo is at full boost" nitrous will eliminate all "turbo lag", providing instant torque gains. In addition to adding 30-40% extra HP and torque (depending on the base engine), the nitrous oxide acts as an additional intercooler, as it is injected into the intake at -127¡F and as it mixes with incoming air, the intake charge can drop by as much as 75 degrees F. These kits are fully adjustable for various power settings.

If this is to dangerous, can WI be used as an effective method of cooling? I'm not referring to using it in boost, more of just introducing more oxygen from the water. I guess you couldn't have it on *all* the time, and maybe the atomization would take effect until your @ WOT. Sorry for the rambling.
Forget all that, I just need a really good IC, right?
I just thought it would be cool to flip a switch every once in a while to make the throttle more responsive, and reduce lag.

Scott

WI will cool the charge, but your not adding dense air, your adding water, its sort of like manually raising the humidity. Ever notice on a really humid day you can run more boost without knocking, problem is your not making more power until you add more boost, more boost means more oxygen fitting through those tiny little ports GM supplied us with.

To sum this up adding water injection is a waste of time unless you pump up the boost, problem with adding WI to the stock configuration is the damn turbo runs out of juice at about 17 psi, so the trick setup is a PTE turbo running 20+ psi, and water injection so you don't break your bank account trying to do it with race gas.

Mark Larson
12.09 @ 110

 

[kwick6]

Thanks for the input on this. There are some different reasons for running the WI that I will be looking to read about to see what efffects it has.

There are different characteristics of injecting water, atomization,
vs vaporization, and detonation supression vs intake charge cooling.

I would rather learn how to tune my truck, adding or pulling timing than just add WI to avoid detonation, like using race gas. Wouldn't it be nice to know what to change to be able to safely run 20psi on pump gas. I have read that just retarding the timing a couple degrees has not hurt performance.

Also, with the use of porting the intake and using different heads, much more less prone to detonation. I just don't like how some of these trucks knock so much, and what I don't want is to try and mask it with WI.

Once the truck is well tuned, and no detonation exists, I might push it just to see what kind of gains can be made when the engine is tuned for the WI.

Scott

 

[Buster]

On 2002-01-26 13:33, kwick6 wrote:
Thanks for the input on this. There are some different reasons for running the WI that I will be looking to read about to see what efffects it has.

There are different characteristics of injecting water, atomization,
vs vaporization, and detonation supression vs intake charge cooling.

Detonation suppression and cooling the intake charge are effectively the same thing, you cool the charge to reduce detonation not make more power, adding water to the intake charge will not make more power even if its 100 degrees cooler.

 

[jwaller]

NOS can be made to work and work really well...I am in the tuning stages for my NOS fogger setup on my truck and let me tell ya its so much of a bitch to do on these trucks BC of the space limitations. but I ramble....the whole build must be considered as well not just putting a plate under the TB..BTW you will see temp drops on the MAT sensor when you put the NOS in the WRONG location.

 

[kwick6]

On 2002-01-26 18:24, jwaller wrote:
NOS can be made to work and work really well...I am in the tuning stages for my NOS fogger setup on my truck and let me tell ya its so much of a bitch to do on these trucks BC of the space limitations. but I ramble....the whole build must be considered as well not just putting a plate under the TB..BTW you will see temp drops on the MAT sensor when you put the NOS in the WRONG location.

What do you think of it? Is it any better than just turning up the boost and running more fuel? What kind of boost are you going to run with the nos?

Scott

 

[Tooky]

JWaller's NOS powered Ty is one of the projects whose results I am most looking forward too.

Note to John: Don't blow the motor in the first few weeks or you'll be the SyTy NOS Failure Story for all time to come!! :grin:

 

[Daron]

On 2002-02-06 00:29, TookyCat wrote:
JWaller's NOS powered Ty is one of the projects whose results I am most looking forward too.

Note to John: Don't blow the motor in the first few weeks or you'll be the SyTy NOS Failure Story for all time to come!! :grin:

There are a few failure stories already on the books, seems like John is going about the task in a methodical manner, I hope he is successfull.

 

[Stangbeater]

Has anyone seen that TY that had the NOS on it at GB last year, make any 1/4 mile passes. I wish they would have stayed after they changed the head gasket in the parking lot, to make a couple of passes.

Dameon Banhart
Auburn, NY
Sy 1664

 

[ZMann]

Dameon...i think that ty did make a few passes...but wasn't tuned? It ran like shit if i remember... they didn't have everything correct.... One thing about Aquamist... 50percent Methanol and the other half water... not only does it cool intake charge...but methanol kinda ups the octane in a sense right?
Later all
Zach Mann
Sy 1012
Dameon, u going to chitown?

 

[kwick6]

On 2002-02-07 23:34, ZeMann wrote:
Dameon...i think that ty did make a few passes...but wasn't tuned? It ran like shit if i remember... they didn't have everything correct.... One thing about Aquamist... 50percent Methanol and the other half water... not only does it cool intake charge...but methanol kinda ups the octane in a sense right?
Later all
Zach Mann
Sy 1012
Dameon, u going to chitown?

There is a lot you can learn if you really research the way people use WI. Water cools, so does alcohol. You are cooling the intake charge and reducing the amount of heat that will lead to detonation. You can also accomplish that with race fuel. The benefits to this depend on how much you tune the truck to run with WI. Adding the alcohol, if I understand it correctly, will be similar to running race fuel and suppress detonation in the same way race fuel does. The water will vaporize and become a cloud which makes a cooler intake charge and isnt as dense as the hot air allowing more boost pressure.

Scott

 

[jwaller]

that NOS ty you saw at GB this year was mine....and I only made 1 pass...ran like a 30 sec run BC Ihad just gotten it HG changed only seconds before....
by the time I felt comfortable with running it they had closed the track for the night and the next day was rained out....so you guys didnt get to see it work...but I can promise all of you it will be working this year at chitown and I won't win the same award twice....I'm trading up for the one the dumlers took home....

 

[TurboManiacal]

Does that green truck look familiar in my sig? That's John working on his head gasket at GB!

 

[Buster]

Adding the alcohol, if I understand it correctly, will be similar to running race fuel and suppress detonation in the same way race fuel does.

They both control denotation, but do it differently. Octane resists pre ignition, the more octane the less likely it'll pre ignition, WI cools hot spots in the combustion chamber which makes low octane gas less likely to pre ignition.

The water will vaporize and become a cloud which makes a cooler intake charge and isnt as dense as the hot air allowing more boost pressure.

Cool air is more dense, hot air is less dense, density has nothing to do with how WI works, density is an intercooler subject.

Mark