Ultimate (safe) compatibility

[92Ty#1524]

Long story short....I have a KB 40# street chip (from previous owner mod) piggybacked with the Ultimate. I have long had concerns about the KB where knock retard is concerned even with the J&S detonation control module that originally came with it. It has since been removed. Ive been battling detonation for some time and dont have the luxury of swapping blown head gaskets over the weekend with a twelve pack since my heads are studded, now.

Is a stock chip a better mate for the Ultimate?

Does the Ultimate offer any detonation control?

I've upgraded to 50# injectors. Can my current chip combo cause fuel scheduling issues?

I'm sure the answers are likely burried deep within this massive wealth of info but I lack the patience and the ability to find them with the connection I'm using at the moment. PLEASE ADVISE.

 

[InvisiBill]

I don't know what, if anything, the Ultimate gets from the piggybacked chip, so I can't help you there.

There is an Ultimate version specifically for 50# injectors. If I understand things correctly, 50# injectors would put out almost twice as much fuel as the stockers on the stock calibration. With the same math, they'd put out an extra 25% when used with a 40# chip. I'm not sure that's really how it works, but the bigger injectors do need a new chip.

 

[smeagol]

Is a stock chip a better mate for the Ultimate?

I haven't seen a KB chip that uses the correct ESC portion on the chip, this is the crucial part of the chip that is piggybacked to the Ultimate. Others HAVE seen the KB chip having the correct ESC, but unless you can read the numbers off your ESC, i have no way of telling.


Does the Ultimate offer any detonation control?


Just like stock, or a little safer, as it pulls timing out faster, and can pull a few degrees of additional retard.

I've upgraded to 50# injectors. Can my current chip combo cause fuel scheduling issues?

Not sure what you are asking here.

 

[92Ty#1524]

From what I've read, the KB chip offers NO knock retard. Thats probably why the previous owner installed the J&S....to make up for the shortcoming. As we may all agree, two or three degrees of retard that the Ultimate offers simply isnt enough. To clarify my question about the chip combo (on the same wavelength), the Ultimate is probably assuming that there is some degree of detonation control from the "main" chip. My KB obviously has nothing to offer and I was thinking that I may need to change it back to a stocker.

I do have the 50# version of the Ultimate. Was as set purchase with the injectiors (thanx, Mike. arautosports.com )

 

[smeagol]

OK, lots of assuming going on here...

KB chip has no knock retard. This is in the programming.

The Ultimate has up to 18 degrees of retard if knock is detected, and it will retard the timing faster than stock. Stock chip retard limit is 12.66 degrees. ATR goes to 15 I believe.

Ramification of the speed at which timing is pulled is that a chip that pulls timing faster may look like it is knocking a lot more, as it pulls timing quicker... make sense?

To clarify my question about the chip combo (on the same wavelength), the Ultimate is probably assuming that there is some degree of detonation control from the "main" chip.

The chip assumes nothing The knock sensor 'listens' for knock, that's all it does, it's a simple microphone. The knock sensor signal goes to the ECM and is filtered, by the ESC filtering on the memcal, which is calibrated to each motor, to each vehicle. This is why a single ECM can be used in different vehicles, different engines. Anyways, every KB chip I've seen is for a different vehicle.. not sure which, just know it ain't for a Syty. So knock sensing will not be accurate with that memcal. Some have seen correct KB chips. Just be aware of this problem. Anyways, the filtering is to discern whether what the knock sensor hears is real detonation or regular engine noise. That filtering was calibrated by GM.

So in short, the Ultimate relies upon the piggybacked chip to filter the knock sensor signal. So you should make sure that the chip you are piggybacking the Ultimate with has the correct filtering, and the KB chip probably won't (probably- - not doesn't).

 

[leroy]

This is straying off topic a bit, but, if your heads are studded, can't you just put a jam nut on to remove the stud?

Jim

 

[myclone]

This is straying off topic a bit, but, if your heads are studded, can't you just put a jam nut on to remove the stud?

Jim

If he has ARP studs then there isnt enough thread sticking through the first nut to get another nut on there. Even if there was I dunno how youd get the studs out that are between rocker arms with a jamb nut. Then again maybe Im missing something :-?

 

[92Ty#1524]

Exactly, myclone. The studs are thread locked into the block and arent coming out without a serious fight. Cant pull the heads with engine in place. Not enough clearance in the engine bay for the heads to clear the studs.

 

[92Ty#1524]

Brian, you've pretty much answered my question. Personally, I was actually hoping to get some feedback from you since you burned my Ultimate :lol:

Hey, anyone out there have a stock chip for sale? I'll even throw in a 40# KB street chip for FREE!!

 

[leroy]

Thanks for answering the stud question. I don't think I've ever seen them.

Jim