Used Sy engine help

[gkrcr882]

Hello everyone, this is my fist post. Me & my dad are going to be buying a '91 Syclone from one of my dads co-workers, who used it as a daily driver and bought it new in '91. the reason we are buying it is the owner dosent want it because it needs engine and body work. the owner said that he was driving it down the road (rural highway speeds) and he heard a bang, so he pulls over and shuts it off. turns out he has a hole in his oil pan, and we are trying to figure out what caused it. best case scenario it was a stone or other debris, but i fear it might have been a loose rod cap bolt or the cap itself that got blasted through the pan. anybody have any ideas? were paying $2000 for the truck, and since im in an auto class at school i have access to a shop. if it turns out to be somthing major, how hard and expensive is a rebuild? anybody know where to buy rebuild kits? thanks for the help! :tup:

 

[MikeRenz]

good find/buy.

depends on what you need as to whether a "kit" exists or not. More likely NO, but its not too tough to piece together what you'll need engine wise.

 

[dgoodhue]

Hole in the oil pan means it probably threw a connecting rod. I would guess that detonation caused it. The block is most likely junk, this is not uncommon for a out of tune motor. I would budget atleast $3K for a rebuild with gaskets and miscellaneous parts (balancer) You want to use at the very least forged pistons and rods. You also want to figure out why it blew, I would look at vacuum lines and the timing.

 

[supersports10]

Re: Used Sy engine help

Hello everyone, this is my fist post. Me & my dad are going to be buying a '91 Syclone from one of my dads co-workers, who used it as a daily driver and bought it new in '91. the reason we are buying it is the owner dosent want it because it needs engine and body work. the owner said that he was driving it down the road (rural highway speeds) and he heard a bang, so he pulls over and shuts it off. turns out he has a hole in his oil pan, and we are trying to figure out what caused it. best case scenario it was a stone or other debris, but i fear it might have been a loose rod cap bolt or the cap itself that got blasted through the pan. anybody have any ideas? were paying $2000 for the truck, and since im in an auto class at school i have access to a shop. if it turns out to be somthing major, how hard and expensive is a rebuild? anybody know where to buy rebuild kits? thanks for the help! :tup:

$ 2000 cash ... not bad

J/K so since your in wi, i might come and look at it for you, maybe i could tell you weather its a rod, or a stone, (most likely a rod )

i feel your pain though, i had my syclone for 2 weeks and lost a ring on the #4 piston, it still runs, but im building a motor right now.

any ways i might be closer to that area later this week, (have to deliver some tires i sold on e bay)

they are NOT kidding on the 3000 or more to get these motors rebuilt right,
i thought i could just buy a junkyard motor for 200 and throw it in...WRONG WRONG WRONG!!
:roll:
that motor would last approx. 1 hour to 1 day under boost

most likely this truck was just driven and not worked on on a regular basis like these trucks REQUIRE :x
figure this truck needs all new motor, all new vacum lines, etc... etc...
the list could be endless, so your pocketbook better be also :tup:

my name is clint, whats yours??

 

[SY2932]

Hole in the oil pan means it probably threw a connecting rod. I would guess that detonation caused it. The block is most likely junk, this is not uncommon for a out of tune motor. I would budget atleast $3K for a rebuild with gaskets and miscellaneous parts (balancer) You want to use at the very least forged pistons and rods. You also want to figure out why it blew, I would look at vacuum lines and the timing.

Ditto. These trucks WILL NOT tolerate detonation for any length of time. Rather than push a head gasket, the path of least resistance is throwing a connecting rod through the oil pan :-? . As mentioned earlier, just putting in any old junkyard 4.3 will be doomed from the start due to the compression ratio being off almost a full point amongst other things. $2K sounds like a steal if it's not to "hit". But, be prepared to spend some decent coin if you take on this "project".

 

[supersports10]

But, be prepared to spend some decent coin if you take on this "project".

couldnt have said it better myself. :-?

seriously though, i want to help in any way i can. id be willing to come and look at it, and tell you EXACTLY whats all wrong, and what its all gonna cost.

hows the interior??

hows the exterior??

hows the cladding??

hows the paint??

hows the tranny??

hows the x-fer case??

hows the rearend??

hows the front diff??

hows the wheels??

hows the propshaft??

hows the turbo??

hows the intecooler??

hows the cche??

hows the tonnau cover, ( if there still is one)??


starting to get the idea?? :wink:

and about a hundred other things that i cant remember right now, because its 2:15 in the morning

theres a lot of fun in these trucks, ... but theres alot of money headaches too :evil:

i hope all this helps.

i know all of this first hand because i have a $6000 lawn ornament with a blown motor, and no funds to fix it over the winter :x sy #569


p.s. ....... get us the vin, or at least the last 4 digits so someone can tell you the history of this truck, and maybe do a carfax on it.

:2cents:

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

whatever # you come up with....double it and you'll be in the ballpark.

 

[gkrcr882]

thanks for all the help everyone. It would be great for you to check out the truck, but theres a slight issue: its on private property locked up in a barn, but thanks for the offer. my dad knows the original owner who bought it new in '91. he used it as a daily driver, and we did some figuring, and for body repair panels alone its near $350 from LMC Truck. if the motor needs to be rebuilt (im praying its not!) is there a good engine shop in SE WI that will do a good job and make sure everything is at factory specs? also, how much damage is done by a thrown rod as far as cylinder and head/valve damage? we are also Carfax members so we can look up the VIN. ill let my dad know, and we'll check it out. at least our '90 S15 is in good shape

 

[Jimmy]

LOL it DID throw a rod through the pan,I guarantee.For 2k though it is a good buy IMO.You are looking at 3k to rebuild the motor,wich would give ya a 5k Sy.That is dirt cheap.
Holler at Jwaller on here,he can build you a good one for cheap.

 

[bezerk]

LOL it DID throw a rod through the pan,I guarantee.For 2k though it is a good buy IMO.You are looking at 3k to rebuild the motor,wich would give ya a 5k Sy.That is dirt cheap.
Holler at Jwaller on here,he can build you a good one for cheap.

you might as wel sent the tranny with that too

 

[Syclone#892]

I know of 2 engine shops that you could take the engine to. And to save money you could have them do all the machining and short block assembly and assemble the rest yourself since its real easy to save some cash. You could also talk to Jwaller on the board and see what his going rate for an engine is.
If you want some help or what not let me know as I am real close to you and I have some connections with places around here.
Send me a pm and I will send you my cell # if you want.

 

[dgoodhue]

also, how much damage is done by a thrown rod as far as cylinder and head/valve damage? we are also Carfax members so we can look up the VIN. ill let my dad know, and we'll check it out. at least our '90 S15 is in good shape

The head should be fine. Even if it was damaged, the heads are nothing special just regular 4.3 heads. Used Stock heads should cost $50-100.

 

[gkrcr882]

what kind of shape are the blocks in after a rod is spit out? can they just be re-honed and reassembled, or are they usually cracked or chipped up? i think the GM blocks are iron if im not mistaken as well as the heads (non-vortec). the way i figure it we will have it machined, re-assembled, and put in the truck, if we even get it! weve had expierence in bodywork before, as we did some rust repair and re-painting on out 1990 GMC S15 Sierra Classic. original black with the red stripe. had the engine worked on that as well at about 110K miles, now it runs great and dosent smoke or anything at 195K miles.

 

[supersports10]

pics ....pics.....pics!!!

this thread is worthless whithout picks.j/k :tup:

seriously, get us some pictures, or at least the vin so we can look up the history on it.

you never know, even though hes the original owner, it still might have a salvage title. he might have totaled it at one time, then had it rebuilt later.

(hope not)

if a rod went theres a 90-95% chance that the block looks like a midget went crazy with a hammer in there! chances are its probably toast.

 

[JSM]

I think there is a syty lesson most here have learned and just have not come out directly and said it yet.

Try to get buy cheap on these trucks, and it will bite you again, and again.

Probably not something you want to hear but ask around.

Lesson #2

Be VERY Cautious of any advice by "experts" who have no clue about sy/ty specifically.

For example my dad has worked on cars for ~35yrs. He knows his way around the garage. He has no clue about syty's and would be the wrong guy to suggest how to rebuild a motor, etc.

This is true all the way to engine rebuild shops, tranny shops, etc.

Do some searching and you will see.

Great buy on the truck, but that will be the cheapest part of the operation.

 

[fiveoh]

if you are not gonna be doing the engine yourself dont buy it! unless(like everybody else said) you have alot of cash to dump. if you do the build yourself(pull and install motor are the big ones)you will save mucho dinero.
i did all the work on my truck with my dad and and spent around 6k. but i replaced alot of components that were still good, and bought the best of everything. anyway good luck with the truck. :rock: :2cents:

 

[gkrcr882]

if the block is junk, can a standard 4.3 block be used with parts from the old engine (turbo, heads, IC, manifold, crank, cam,)? also can stocker rods from a naturally aspirated 4.3 be used with Syclone pistons? we use LMC truck for all our parts, and they dont have a whole lot for SyTys.

 

[dgoodhue]

if the block is junk, can a standard 4.3 block be used with parts from the old engine (turbo, heads, IC, manifold, crank, cam,)? also can stocker rods from a naturally aspirated 4.3 be used with Syclone pistons? we use LMC truck for all our parts, and they dont have a whole lot for SyTys.

Yes a regular 4.3 block can be used, I think you want to use 88 up 4.3 with the roller cams. Most likey a rod thrown equals junk block.

You can use regular 4.3 rods, but I would not recommend it it all. The stock rods are just regular 4.3 LB4 rods, but for instance if you don't fix your previous problem that cause it to throw the rod in the first place, the rebuilt engine may do it immediatley again under WOT. The stock rods are not forgiving of an out of tune truck. The stock pistons aren't much better. Many people make references to our motor being made of glass, this is because of the factory pistons and rods.

I would highly recommend forged rods and forged pistons. If you really really on a budget you can use 4.3 L35 rods.

 

[gkrcr882]

we will probably try to find a boneyard 4.3L "W code" engine, and we will probabaly tow the truck to my school where we have the equipment to do a rebuild. our plan is to salvage as much as possible, and put it into the new block with new parts where required. how hard is a rebuild on a Sy engine, and how complex is removal and installation? thanks for the help

 

[gkrcr882]

Well, its over. we are not getting the truck, because it is junk. body is rotted to dust, and this is the second engine in this truck to go. thanks for all your help, and ill talk to you sometime in the future