what are short term, long term counts on datamaster

[kwick6]

Trying to figure out what I am looking at.
Is the short term and long term , the BLM, the integrator or what?
I was trying to research what these translated into, but I couldn't find enough info.
The long term seems to stay steady at 128.
The short term jumps all over. I have seen numbers as low as 95 at times on the short term.
I'll have more to add to this, but first want to find out what numbers represent what on datamaster.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[kwick6]

If I remember diacom had BLM values as well as integrator values, but I don't see that on datamaster.
Do I have to get the BLM and integrator off of diacom?

Scott

 

[smeagol]

short term = integrator
long term = block learn memory (blm)

short term & long term are in terms of percentage fuel added/subtracted

integrator and BLM are in terms of 128 being neutral, > 128 adding fuel, < 128 removing fuel. Think in terms of bytes, if you understand that. One byte max decimal value = 255 (hex ff), 128 is half of that value (approx), giving you equal amounts of ability to remove fuel as add fuel.

Brian G

 

[kwick6]

Looks as though when the integrator goes over the 128 mark for a period of time the BLM will jump up from 128 to 130. Does that mean it was too rich so the BLM removes fuel?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[smeagol]

I bet the jump up was right when you opened or closed the throttle, going from one BLM cell to another. We only have 2 in syty's, open throttle and closed throttle.

Brian G

 

[kwick6]

The reason I was wondering about these numbers was because it seems some trucks want more fp than others, and not too sure why. I have a bigger turbo and though it would seem that I should run a higher fp, they may not be the case.

Looking at my datamaster, idle integrators where in the 130s which would say it is lean and the integrator is trying to fatten things up.

Check out this taken from archives..
Does anyone know why these trucks would have their fp set so differently?
---------------------------------------------
At 05:51 PM 10/10/96 -0500, you (Scott D Bartholomay) wrote:
>
>
>On Tue, 8 Oct 1996, Todd A Austinson wrote:
>
>> At 01:17 PM 10/8/96 -0500, you (Scott D Bartholomay) wrote:
>>
>> >I'm currently running a base FP of around 60, so a 60 psi wouldn't
>> >work the best.
>>
>> Why such a high base pressure?
>
>I started off there when I put the TD06h on, and I haven't really
>played with it much since. It's *really* fat all over at 60 psi,
>though, so I think I'll probably back it down to 55 or so. The
>turbo is moving quite a bit more air now, so it can use the fuel
>on the top end at 20+ psi.

Are you sure you need that much FP? I'm running a 900+ CFM turbo (TE-62)
with 37 psi FP (w/vacuum) and seeing only 3-4 degrees retard, 900mv on the
O2 sensor at over 5000 rpm, and 20-21 psi boost. My 4000# brick would be
running 11.90's/12.00s if it were a Syclone. If you're running pure leaded
race gas you'd have even less reason to be running that high of FP. I can't
believe that there's that much variance between vehicles that I could run 37
and someone else would need 55+ flowing equal or less air.

**********************************************************************
Todd Austinson '92 GMC Typhoon 12.44 @ 107 mph
<Todd.A.Austinson@lerc.nasa.gov '89 Turbo Trans Am 12.20 @ 112 mph
**********************************************************************
Oh, at the beginning of this message, Dig is saying that a fp gauge that went up to 60 wouldn't be enough of a range...because he is running the higher fp...Then Todd is wondering why he is running so high with similar builds.
I realize that a wideband would definately tell me what is going on, but I was hoping I could use the integrator as a guideline.

Thanks,
Scott

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: kwick6 on 2001-12-05 16:03 ]</font>

 

[kwick6]

At the beginning of that post Dig is saying that the fp gauge they were talking about wouldn't be enough range, cuz it only went up to sixty. Todd is wondering why he uses such a high fp.

Scott

 

[kwick6]

On 2001-12-05 15:52, Red Canyonero wrote:
I bet the jump up was right when you opened or closed the throttle, going from one BLM cell to another. We only have 2 in syty's, open throttle and closed throttle.

Brian G

Brian,

Yep BLM changes to 130 as soon as I open throttle. Weird thing I noticed though...
The integrators were in the 130's at idle for the most part and then one time they were below in the 95 to 128 range. I don't understand why they would change like that. I made sure the TPS% was 0.0 and every time the integrators were 130-140, except once when they were below in the 100-120 range.?

Is that normal , I mean I didn't change fp or anything. Just wondering why the idle would change from being on the lean side to being rich.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[kwick6]

On 2001-12-05 15:52, Red Canyonero wrote:
I bet the jump up was right when you opened or closed the throttle, going from one BLM cell to another. We only have 2 in syty's, open throttle and closed throttle.

Brian G

Brian,

Yep BLM changes to 130 as soon as I open throttle. Weird thing I noticed though...
The integrators were in the 130's at idle for the most part and then one time they were below in the 95 to 128 range. I don't understand why they would change like that. I made sure the TPS% was 0.0 and every time the integrators were 130-140, except once when they were below in the 100-120 range.?

Is that normal , I mean I didn't change fp or anything. Just wondering why the idle would change from being on the lean side to being rich.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[smeagol]

It all depends on the conditions. When you decel, the truck usually goes a bit rich, so if you were decelerating, or the RPM was coming down to idle, it may pull some fuel out.

Could be many things, hard to say with the data you have provided. This was at a steady state condition when this occurred?

Brian G

 

[kwick6]

Yes it seems as though it was on a deceleration. Also when I stopped the truck and put into park as the RPMs began to settle down... so probably no big deal.

So if the idle is lean according to the integrator being 130-140, what effect does that have in WOT?
Should I up my fp to see if the integrator numbers go down at idle?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[smeagol]

130-140 isn't bad at all, and those numbers will vary a small amount with coolant temp, and weather, an whether or not the groundhog sees his shadow. Those values will have no effect on wot performance.

BG

 

[Daron]

On 2001-12-05 15:34, kwick6 wrote:
Looks as though when the integrator goes over the 128 mark for a period of time the BLM will jump up from 128 to 130. Does that mean it was too rich so the BLM removes fuel?

Thanks,
Scott

If it goes above 128, that means the time the injectors spend open increases, thus it is adding more fuel, not reducing.

 

[kwick6]

Just kinda wondering why Dig and Todd had such a huge difference in what fp they ran.

Please tell me what this is referring to.
---------------------------------------------

The thing is, the BLM *does* get applied if the BLM is lean at the
time you enter Power Enrichment mode (WOT).

In other words, if the ECM has "learned" over a long period of time
that the engine is lean, then it will apply that "fudge factor" to
the overall fueling equation, even at full throttle. This is why a
bad o2 sensor can potentially affect WOT performance.

If the BLM is reading "even" or richer than normal, it will not
add that factor to the overall fueling.

The BLM does't get calculated during WOT (Power enrichment) either.
It won't try to tell if the engine is too lean/rich if you're on
the throttle hard, it will only "learn" at part throttle and idle.

---------------------------------------------

Just wanted to see what this meant. Anyone comment?
It mentions if the BLM is lean at the point of WOT...please explain.. I have only seen the BLM at 128 and 130 (the only two it could be?)
What would the indication of the BLM being lean be?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[smeagol]

The idle BLM will NOT affect WOT performance. The open throttle BLM CAN affect it.

Once in PE mode (when you hammer it), the computer checks the BLM. If the BLM is less than 128, it uses a value of 128. If it is greater than 128, it uses the BLM value.

Think about it..you wouldn't want to have leaner than the calibrated fueling for WOT would you? Adding fuel couldn't hurt, and may be necessary if the open throttle BLM is that far outta wack.

The BLM will not be influenced by WOT conditions. It is only influenced by closed loop conditions, during idle, cruise etc, once warmed up.

Brian G

 

[kwick6]

On 2001-12-05 18:40, Red Canyonero wrote:
The idle BLM will NOT affect WOT performance. The open throttle BLM CAN affect it.

Like you said before, when I noticed the jump from 128 to 130 as soon as I touched the throttle. I assume that is because its adding more fuel.

Once in PE mode (when you hammer it), the computer checks the BLM. If the BLM is less than 128, it uses a value of 128. If it is greater than 128, it uses the BLM value.

So in my case the computer sees 130, so it goes with 130.
Have you ran across trucks that have had different BLM numbers...say 115..then it will go with 128?

Think about it..you wouldn't want to have leaner than the calibrated fueling for WOT would you? Adding fuel couldn't hurt, and may be necessary if the open throttle BLM is that far outta wack.

That makes sense, but agian the only value I have seen for BLM is 128 at idle, and when I hit the throttle it goes to 130. Sounds like its working ok right?

The BLM will not be influenced by WOT conditions. It is only influenced by closed loop conditions, during idle, cruise etc, once warmed up.

Brian G

I have noticed nothing changes in WOT. BLM does all its *learning* in idle, off idle.
The thing that is tough to get right is the tip in, and I just wanted to know if this would be of some help. I can't seem to get the right fp set, and which is why I started asking you all about bigger injectors. But when I saw Todd happy running the lower fp, and Mark L. saying the stock inj are plenty big for my turbo... I figured I would like to get it running as good as possible. Not to mention I'm not knowledgable enough to be throwing bigger inj in if I don't know what is going on yet.. :grin:
Thanks for all the help.

Scott

 

[Buster]

As for the stock injectors fueling the 44, I'd use performance numbers or goals to make that decision. Just wait for Brian to release the 50#er and you'll be just fine. BTW: You can sell those 009's for $150 on the Buick site, but stay away from their kill section, their mean over there, hehe.

Mark Larson

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Super Serious on 2001-12-05 22:53 ]</font>

 

[kwick6]

Mark,
Damn, things did get a little heated over there....
As for the injectors, I just never had them shipped out to me, so no loss there.
I'd like to see 500hpsomeday, other than that I just like to stay a step ahead on the *preventative maintence* like rods, and pistons. :wink:

Scott

 

[E-Rue]

several questions.......

1. if my idle is rich, i should be seeing low "STerm Counts"?
mine are in the 80's.

2. if i want to modify idle fueling is this the appropriate table?
0x0476 F29E_TBLE Base Pulse VE vs RPM And MAP (Closed Throttle)

3. am i understanding this table correctly in assuming that because it has entrys from 600RPM to 1600RPM that i can use this closed throttle table for fueling changes not only at idle but in coasting where the rpm is higher than idle, but the throttle is closed?

4. a wide band O@ is supervaluable in WOT tuning, but a regulare old O@ sensor will work fine for most drivability tuning? i just have to make the adjustments in the CORRECT table based on STerm?

e

 

[kwick6]

several questions.......

1. if my idle is rich, i should be seeing low "STerm Counts"?
mine are in the 80's.

2. if i want to modify idle fueling is this the appropriate table?
0x0476 F29E_TBLE Base Pulse VE vs RPM And MAP (Closed Throttle)

3. am i understanding this table correctly in assuming that because it has entrys from 600RPM to 1600RPM that i can use this closed throttle table for fueling changes not only at idle but in coasting where the rpm is higher than idle, but the throttle is closed?

4. a wide band O@ is supervaluable in WOT tuning, but a regulare old O@ sensor will work fine for most drivability tuning? i just have to make the adjustments in the CORRECT table based on STerm?

e

1. Yes, numbers below 128 mean richer than 14.7 and #'s higher than 128 are leaner.

2. Yes, F29E is added to F30 for closed throttle fueling

3. I think F29E is only an idle table

4. Yes, stock 02 will tell you where 14.7 is, whether or not your truck likes it is a different story.

BTW, take a look at your IAC numbers at idle(vac leak), and start leaning out the VE.....02 should start swinging also.

Scott