4l80E - How much can it handle?
- Thread starter brock1949
- Start date
MIGHTYMOUSE
Turbo F body guy
MIGHTYMOUSE
Turbo F body guy
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
entirely different car acutally, that was my formula that i wrecked at the track sept 06 right before the mag came out. (last pic here) http://home.comcast.net/~deezuns/
this past year i put together a trans am and that has had a 4l80 which has been wonderful (see sig)
this is a page from the event coverage
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=115448&d=1199937643
anyways.. the 4l80 is great at hauling my nearly 3900# car over 156mph
entirely different car acutally, that was my formula that i wrecked at the track sept 06 right before the mag came out. (last pic here) http://home.comcast.net/~deezuns/
this past year i put together a trans am and that has had a 4l80 which has been wonderful (see sig)
this is a page from the event coverage
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=115448&d=1199937643
anyways.. the 4l80 is great at hauling my nearly 3900# car over 156mph
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
I wouldn't worry about the ol 4L80E, look at what this shop alone has for performance upgrades.
http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM4L80ECOMPETITIONCOMPONENTS.html
I wouldn't worry about the ol 4L80E, look at what this shop alone has for performance upgrades.
http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM4L80ECOMPETITIONCOMPONENTS.html
brock1949
Its alive!!!
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
Alright i'm planning on looking around slowly..
I JUST missed a local guy selling off a 98 4l80E with 80k on the clock $250 bucks and it was in perfect working order.
Best deal i'm seeing right now for a non broken one is about 500-600 for a 96+ 4l80E with 80-120k on the clock.
And being the super dumb@ss i am I actually just replaced the 100k mile 4l80E out of my 2500 silverado because the dealer i bought the truck was picking up 80% of the tab for a new tranny.. So gave the other 4l80E to the trans shop to install a trango kit etc in the new one. So saved me like 250-350 bucks..
Alright i'm planning on looking around slowly..
I JUST missed a local guy selling off a 98 4l80E with 80k on the clock $250 bucks and it was in perfect working order.
Best deal i'm seeing right now for a non broken one is about 500-600 for a 96+ 4l80E with 80-120k on the clock.
And being the super dumb@ss i am I actually just replaced the 100k mile 4l80E out of my 2500 silverado because the dealer i bought the truck was picking up 80% of the tab for a new tranny.. So gave the other 4l80E to the trans shop to install a trango kit etc in the new one. So saved me like 250-350 bucks..
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
Don't worry about the year.
If you get a 1991 to 1996 model, do all the updates (wire harness,AFL valve fix, replace all electronics and modify the valvebody for the new Pressure Control Solenoid (PCS). Do a transgo HD2, no walk rear case bushing, wide front pump bushing and follow ALL instructions in the HD2 kit. I also do a transbrake setup now with aluminum direct drum and can also do a custom 2nd piston/clutch setup for big HP guys. These units have officially run into the 7s.
I've done billet input shafts, hubs, main shafts, I now have different gear ratio planetaries available to me as well as the transbrakes available above. 7s will require modifications but with the HP/Torque required to do 7s, I think that "buffer" zone is more than enough for 99.9% of the guys out there. Remember, this unit was designed to haul 35K pounds behind a 7K pound vehicle to begin with. Your truck doesn't come remotely CLOSE to that. Don't use the 65 pound stock TC. Use a PI,Coan,Hughes, Yank, or ProTorque. All are good quality converters but I personnally distribute PI because it can be locked up at WOT and the turbos really like the load. But you can choose your converter based on need. For example Coan will tell you that you can lock it up at WOT, but they don't recommend it. Yank is the same way. They will tell you, "yes, you can lock it up and it will hold, but will wear out after a season or two." A nice thing about the 80e is control so if you don't want to lock it up at WOT, just disable it and then it's not an issue. Just retune accordingly. I've rambled enough but to answer the question, 7s has been officially done.
Don't worry about the year.
If you get a 1991 to 1996 model, do all the updates (wire harness,AFL valve fix, replace all electronics and modify the valvebody for the new Pressure Control Solenoid (PCS). Do a transgo HD2, no walk rear case bushing, wide front pump bushing and follow ALL instructions in the HD2 kit. I also do a transbrake setup now with aluminum direct drum and can also do a custom 2nd piston/clutch setup for big HP guys. These units have officially run into the 7s.
I've done billet input shafts, hubs, main shafts, I now have different gear ratio planetaries available to me as well as the transbrakes available above. 7s will require modifications but with the HP/Torque required to do 7s, I think that "buffer" zone is more than enough for 99.9% of the guys out there. Remember, this unit was designed to haul 35K pounds behind a 7K pound vehicle to begin with. Your truck doesn't come remotely CLOSE to that. Don't use the 65 pound stock TC. Use a PI,Coan,Hughes, Yank, or ProTorque. All are good quality converters but I personnally distribute PI because it can be locked up at WOT and the turbos really like the load. But you can choose your converter based on need. For example Coan will tell you that you can lock it up at WOT, but they don't recommend it. Yank is the same way. They will tell you, "yes, you can lock it up and it will hold, but will wear out after a season or two." A nice thing about the 80e is control so if you don't want to lock it up at WOT, just disable it and then it's not an issue. Just retune accordingly. I've rambled enough but to answer the question, 7s has been officially done.
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
George,
I have a new 2007 4L85E trans,,,what upgrades would you recommend?
Thanks you.
George,
I have a new 2007 4L85E trans,,,what upgrades would you recommend?
Thanks you.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
A new one? Billet hub, Transgo HD2, good converter. That's it. When they have it apart (if you do the full HD2), have them make sure it has a 34 element sprag. For some reason, I've been finding the weaker 16 element sprag for 2nd gear in them.
A new one? Billet hub, Transgo HD2, good converter. That's it. When they have it apart (if you do the full HD2), have them make sure it has a 34 element sprag. For some reason, I've been finding the weaker 16 element sprag for 2nd gear in them.
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
George,
A billet hub for the clutches? I do not have an IPC breakdown.Or is there only one hub in a trans?
I am not too tranny savey.
Thanks
George,
A billet hub for the clutches? I do not have an IPC breakdown.Or is there only one hub in a trans?
I am not too tranny savey.
Thanks
brock1949
Its alive!!!
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
When you say follow ALL of the instructions in the HD2 kit what do you mean exactly lol.. My DD the 6L 2500 silverado i had a 4l80E done from a 03-04, when the tranny was first done the did the stage 2 holes it shifted so hard it was stupid. And first thing in the morning when i drop it in gear i would hit the gas and the truck wouldn't move and all the sudden it it would like slam into gear.. this was usually like reverse would get it out of the drive then the first time i start going forward it would do the slam thing at like 1000-1800 rpms.
Trans shop got a brand new valve body and installed it and refused to drill the holes period said they've done tons of kits without the holes.. then they also left out my manual shift saying "thats for racing you didn't need that" which was even cooler because i've got a 20Ft 12,000gvw gooseneck that truck pulls that weights 4000lbs empty and nearly 8000 with my S10, Jeep or Atv's on it.
Trans came out shifting great though,.. like the best i've ever driven out of a auto. Only thing i notice is when i start the truck i hear a slight howl for about 1 maybe 2 second that everyone says is normal. but again i don't know.
I'm possibly after 2 more 4l80E's. I think i'm going to run one in my S10 and the 1955 first series pickup were building my dad, We have a Lq9 6L for it sitting in the garage thats going to see a mild cam etc etc.. shooting for 300-375RWHP DD street truck. (weighs under 3000lbs lol)
When you say follow ALL of the instructions in the HD2 kit what do you mean exactly lol.. My DD the 6L 2500 silverado i had a 4l80E done from a 03-04, when the tranny was first done the did the stage 2 holes it shifted so hard it was stupid. And first thing in the morning when i drop it in gear i would hit the gas and the truck wouldn't move and all the sudden it it would like slam into gear.. this was usually like reverse would get it out of the drive then the first time i start going forward it would do the slam thing at like 1000-1800 rpms.
Trans shop got a brand new valve body and installed it and refused to drill the holes period said they've done tons of kits without the holes.. then they also left out my manual shift saying "thats for racing you didn't need that" which was even cooler because i've got a 20Ft 12,000gvw gooseneck that truck pulls that weights 4000lbs empty and nearly 8000 with my S10, Jeep or Atv's on it.
Trans came out shifting great though,.. like the best i've ever driven out of a auto. Only thing i notice is when i start the truck i hear a slight howl for about 1 maybe 2 second that everyone says is normal. but again i don't know.
I'm possibly after 2 more 4l80E's. I think i'm going to run one in my S10 and the 1955 first series pickup were building my dad, We have a Lq9 6L for it sitting in the garage thats going to see a mild cam etc etc.. shooting for 300-375RWHP DD street truck. (weighs under 3000lbs lol)
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
The "hub" I'm talking about is the one in the forward drum. The intermediate shaft splines into it, passes through the sun gear shaft and then splines into the race that the rearmost planetary engages. This in stock form is a cast iron piece whereas the 2 aftermarket models available are forged units. One is 300m and the other is 4140. Both are very tough and you won't hurt them.
Sonnax sells this unit. Make sure you check it before leaving the store, though, I've encountered one unit where the interior splines weren't cut for whatever reason. I sell these if you want one.
On the "stage 2" holes making it shift "hard". No. Something else was screwed up. The shift "firmness" is determined by line pressure and the shift accumulator valve as well as tcu programming(line pressures commanded). In the transgo kit, it is two blue springs and a special o-ringed plug to help it seal fluid from leaking off. Most likely, they screwed the valvebody up. There are many holes to drill and if they aren't done PEFECT, it will cause issues. Many holes. Also, there are 3 holes to plug in the separator plate. What happens most of the time when there are problems is they just put the plug in the hole and smack it with a hammer. What you are supposed to do is use a drill bit and make a shart edge along the holes to block so the aluminum plug has something to expand over onto when you expand the plug. Another thing they could've done is installed the accumulator springs for 3rd and 4th incorrectly. This can reduce your "waterhammer" affect and make them hit too hard. Another trick some shops like to do is plug the 2nd accumulator. Don't DO THAT!
The size of the holes are for shift time. Amount of time from 1st to 2nd gear. This determines how LONG it takes for the intermediate clutches to engage. If you have a ton of line pressure, yes, it will thump.
In order to follow ALL the instructions, the trans has to be completely disassembled. Most shops do NOT do this. The pump has to be completely disassembled, the valvebody, everything. For example, the direct drum is supposed to be disassembled and the return springs replaced with the stiffer spings in the kit. This takes almost 45 minutes to do. That's 45 minutes they could've been using to put it back together. This take a LOT of time that they do not like to spend(time is money). I personally have an 80e with transgo hd2 and it has never behaved like you describe. The whine noise however is normal. It's a gear driven pump(no vanes), so it does make more noise. Remember, it's a workhorse trans, not a comfy passenger case trans. Yes the jaguar did come with an 80e but that car has so much insulation, you couldn't hear anything from outside the passenger compartment.
The full manual shift, I don't install either. It's is called "Command Shift". This setup allows an operator to downshift ANY TIME at any speed. So if you want to go from 4th to 1st, you can. Unfortunately, there are MANY uneducated operators that absolutely would do that and...blow and engine. And who would get blamed? The trans shop of course. Who in their right mind would ever build a trans that would let you go from 4th to 1st? At least that's what an engine builder would say. Best just not to use it.
The "hub" I'm talking about is the one in the forward drum. The intermediate shaft splines into it, passes through the sun gear shaft and then splines into the race that the rearmost planetary engages. This in stock form is a cast iron piece whereas the 2 aftermarket models available are forged units. One is 300m and the other is 4140. Both are very tough and you won't hurt them.
Sonnax sells this unit. Make sure you check it before leaving the store, though, I've encountered one unit where the interior splines weren't cut for whatever reason. I sell these if you want one.
On the "stage 2" holes making it shift "hard". No. Something else was screwed up. The shift "firmness" is determined by line pressure and the shift accumulator valve as well as tcu programming(line pressures commanded). In the transgo kit, it is two blue springs and a special o-ringed plug to help it seal fluid from leaking off. Most likely, they screwed the valvebody up. There are many holes to drill and if they aren't done PEFECT, it will cause issues. Many holes. Also, there are 3 holes to plug in the separator plate. What happens most of the time when there are problems is they just put the plug in the hole and smack it with a hammer. What you are supposed to do is use a drill bit and make a shart edge along the holes to block so the aluminum plug has something to expand over onto when you expand the plug. Another thing they could've done is installed the accumulator springs for 3rd and 4th incorrectly. This can reduce your "waterhammer" affect and make them hit too hard. Another trick some shops like to do is plug the 2nd accumulator. Don't DO THAT!
The size of the holes are for shift time. Amount of time from 1st to 2nd gear. This determines how LONG it takes for the intermediate clutches to engage. If you have a ton of line pressure, yes, it will thump.
In order to follow ALL the instructions, the trans has to be completely disassembled. Most shops do NOT do this. The pump has to be completely disassembled, the valvebody, everything. For example, the direct drum is supposed to be disassembled and the return springs replaced with the stiffer spings in the kit. This takes almost 45 minutes to do. That's 45 minutes they could've been using to put it back together. This take a LOT of time that they do not like to spend(time is money). I personally have an 80e with transgo hd2 and it has never behaved like you describe. The whine noise however is normal. It's a gear driven pump(no vanes), so it does make more noise. Remember, it's a workhorse trans, not a comfy passenger case trans. Yes the jaguar did come with an 80e but that car has so much insulation, you couldn't hear anything from outside the passenger compartment.
The full manual shift, I don't install either. It's is called "Command Shift". This setup allows an operator to downshift ANY TIME at any speed. So if you want to go from 4th to 1st, you can. Unfortunately, there are MANY uneducated operators that absolutely would do that and...blow and engine. And who would get blamed? The trans shop of course. Who in their right mind would ever build a trans that would let you go from 4th to 1st? At least that's what an engine builder would say. Best just not to use it.
brock1949
Its alive!!!
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
First off that is some good info thanks a million. I just figured out you were in ohio!! (Not sure why i haven't noticed it.
I picked up the first 4l80E i needed, 2003 4l80E from a 4.8 conversion van. like 15k miles paid just over 1000 for it with the core fee built in. I feel i semi overpaid seeing how I bought the 35k mile 4l80E i put in my DD for 750 and I also got my buddy a 45k mile Lq4 6L with the 4l80E and all Acc still on it for 2000 !. ( for the crew cab long bed S10 build). But its going in the 55 1st series pickup so i wanted it a clean low miles unit or fresh rebuilt and prices didn't seem to line up for a rebuild.
For this 4l80E i'm thinking probably just the HD2 kit, its a street truck might see a track once a summer. Were building this truck for my dad, I've got a Lq9 Flat top 6.0L that all said and done bolt ons and cam were hoping to hit 325-400rwhp. +/- 3000lbs should be a fun truck.
George what would you want to do the kit etc on this 4l80E if i drove it down some weekend. I mean before its installed just a loose trans.
First off that is some good info thanks a million. I just figured out you were in ohio!! (Not sure why i haven't noticed it.
I picked up the first 4l80E i needed, 2003 4l80E from a 4.8 conversion van. like 15k miles paid just over 1000 for it with the core fee built in. I feel i semi overpaid seeing how I bought the 35k mile 4l80E i put in my DD for 750 and I also got my buddy a 45k mile Lq4 6L with the 4l80E and all Acc still on it for 2000 !. ( for the crew cab long bed S10 build). But its going in the 55 1st series pickup so i wanted it a clean low miles unit or fresh rebuilt and prices didn't seem to line up for a rebuild.
For this 4l80E i'm thinking probably just the HD2 kit, its a street truck might see a track once a summer. Were building this truck for my dad, I've got a Lq9 Flat top 6.0L that all said and done bolt ons and cam were hoping to hit 325-400rwhp. +/- 3000lbs should be a fun truck.
George what would you want to do the kit etc on this 4l80E if i drove it down some weekend. I mean before its installed just a loose trans.
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
Sure. I've got some projects going on right now. Just email or pm me when your ready and I'll see where I can fit it in. If it's got more than 60K on it, I'd have to tear it down to check everything. If something goes wrong and all I did was the valvebody and pump and didn't check everything else, I would have egg on my face.
Sure. I've got some projects going on right now. Just email or pm me when your ready and I'll see where I can fit it in. If it's got more than 60K on it, I'd have to tear it down to check everything. If something goes wrong and all I did was the valvebody and pump and didn't check everything else, I would have egg on my face.
brock1949 said:
It's just a six
Super Member
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
George Blake said:
George Blake
DONATING MEMBER
Re: 4l80E - How much can it handle?
You can check in my forum under 4l80e prices
You can check in my forum under 4l80e prices