Air box

Typhoon #2131

SAVE THE TA-TAS
I took out the stock air box and put in a K&N filter today. When I pulled the box out it has a hose coming off of it and going into the valve cover. I started the TY. up and it had suction to it. Dose anyone know what this hose is for or how important it is? I just took a valve cover breather filter and hose clamped it to the end of the hose to keep dirt from going into my motor for now.
 

13Pelle

Active member
Re: Air box

It is for the PCV system. Some poeple just put the breather filter directly into the valve cover. Others tap the crossover tube and keep the line almost as it was. If someone else doesn't post pics I can send/post a few when I get home if you need them.
 

Typhoon #2131

SAVE THE TA-TAS
Re: Air box

It is for the PCV system. Some poeple just put the breather filter directly into the valve cover. Others tap the crossover tube and keep the line almost as it was. If someone else doesn't post pics I can send/post a few when I get home if you need them.

I had a feeling it had to do with the PVC but when I pulled the tube there was nothing on it. there is a hose on the other a hose on the pass. side valve cover that has the pvc and it goes into the cross tube that runs across the radiator. I just want to make sure I'm not going to mess anything up by putting that filter on the end of the hose.
 

s10blaza

BOOSTED
Re: Air box

This is what I did

DSCF3713.jpg


DSCF3728.jpg
 

Typhoon #2131

SAVE THE TA-TAS
Re: Air box

The stock box receives cool air from in front of the core support, which is an above-atmospheric pressure level, almost 4 feet from the turbo. This improvement receives hot under-hood air after it passes through the radiator, and ambient heat from the turbo that is only 8" away, at possibly a negative pressure level..

This is an improvement?

I put mine on the end of the cross tube where the stock air box was by the oil filter.
 

warmpancakes

New member
Re: Air box

The stock box receives cool air from in front of the core support, which is an above-atmospheric pressure level, almost 4 feet from the turbo. This improvement receives hot under-hood air after it passes through the radiator, and ambient heat from the turbo that is only 8" away, at possibly a negative pressure level..

This is an improvement?


Air intakes can be seperated into specific catagories:

- Those that take in warm engine bay air
- Those that are exposed to cooler/fresher air from the front.

The biggest bennefit of adding an aftermarket air intake is unshrouding the factory air box.

The last bennefit is exposing it to fresh air.

Ram Air is a myth, and many intake manufactures use the word Ram Air strictly for propaganda. They also try to show track results compared to other intakes that simply incur too many variables to make a meaningful and empirical determination. 60 foot times, atmospheric changes, shifting, etc, etc. So do not beleive anything you hear regarding such claims regarding air intakes.

Lets take a look at the "Ram Air" Myth in automobiles:

The Ram Air Myth by Dave Rodabaugh

The Ram Air Myth is the most mythical of them all. It differs from the other myths, in that the other myths are misinterpretations of physical phenomena, whereas ram air simply does not exist.

MYTH: Use of a scoop on the front of the vehicle to collect intake air, or provide ?ram air? can raise engine performance.

TRUTH: At automobile velocities, there is no ram air effect.

SIMPLE EXPLANATION

The "Truth" statement says it all. How much simpler can it be? The Ram Air effect is a total myth because it simply does not exist. ?But Pontiac uses it on the Trans Am, and they know more than you do.? To those who offer this, tsk tsk. Careful reading of Pontiac?s statements on the matter reveal that the HP increase of the WS6 package are a result of a less restrictive intake, and a freer-flowing exhaust, NOT any ram air effect.

So why does Pontiac use Ram Air? Easy! To make people buy their cars! And they are quite effective with this strategy.

DEEPER EXPLANATION

Of all of the applied sciences, fluid mechanics is among the most difficult for many people to comprehend. It is a relatively youthful applied science as well, meaning that it has not had two or three centuries of work to mature into an applied science on par, with say, chemical combustion. To make matters worse, it is mathematically defined almost entirely by experimentally-determined mathematics.

This last point is the true differentiator between those who only understand concepts, and those who can quantify what they are discussing. Truly, quantification is the real skill of the engineer. It is one thing to speak about qualitative issues (the ?what? of the physical sciences); it is entirely another to quantify them (the ?how much? and ?to what extent? of the same). In grade school, students are first taught about ?closed form mathematics? and then that these mathematics are typical of scientific expression. A good example of this is Newton?s famed ?law of action and reaction?, the mathematical expression of which is a succinct F=MA. So straightforward. So simple. Three variables in perfectly-defined harmony. Given any two of them, the third is easy to nail down.

Unfortunately, a vast, vast majority of the mathematics used in engineering are NOT closed form. Instead, they are multi-variable correlations valid only for a narrow set of circumstances. Deviate from those narrow circumstances, and a new expression must be experimentally derived. Fluid mechanics is almost entirely defined by these experimentally-determined expressions, further muddying an applied science not well understood.

And if there ever were an applied science for which common sense is wholly inappropriate, it is fluid mechanics. Virtually nothing obeys the ?common sense? rules of observation, explaining why those who believe in ram air have extreme difficulty in believing that is simply does not exist.

The Deeper Explanation begins with a basic explanation of engine principles. Air and fuel must be combusted at a specific ratio, namely, 14.7 parts air to 1 part fuel (this is a chemical ratio). Stuffing more fuel into the cylinders without increasing the amount of air they also swallow will get no gain whatsoever. So the hot rodder?s adage ?more air = more power? is proven correct. Figure out a way to stuff more air into the cylinder at any given RPM and throttle setting, and you can burn more fuel. Since burning fuel is what makes power, more air truly does create more power.

The amount of air which is inducted into a cylinder is a function of the air?s density. As the air flows through the intake tract, it loses pressure, and as the pressure decreases, so does the air?s density. (Denisty is mass divided by volume. Since cylinders are a fixed volume, increasing the density will also increase the mass of the air in the cylinder.) There are two ways to increase the pressure and density of the air inducted into the cylinders:

- Decrease the pressure drop from the throttle plate to the cylinders

- Increase the starting pressure at the throttle plate.

Ram air is an attempt to do the second. Under normal circumstances, the air at the throttle plate is at atmospheric pressure, and this pressure drops until the air reaches the cylinders. Ram air would start the process at some pressure higher than atmospheric, and even though the drop is the same, the cylinder pressure is higher because of the increase at the start.

Just how would this increase in pressure at the throttle plate occur? The oft-wrong ?common sense? says, ?If a scoop is placed in the airstream flowing around the vehicle, the velocity of the air ?rams? the air into the scoop, thus increasing the pressure.?

Why is this incorrect? There are two types of pressure: static and dynamic. Placing of one?s hand in front of a fan, or out of a moving car?s window, clearly exerts a force on the hand as the air diverts its path to flow around it. Most people would say ?See? This is a clear indication that ram air works. Clearly there is pressure from the velocity of the air.? Well, this is correct, but only to a point. This is an example of dynamic pressure, or the force any moving fluid exerts upon obstacles in its path as the gas is diverted around the obstacle.

What an engine needs is static pressure. This is the pressure the same fluid exerts on any vessel containing it at rest. For those who were physics/chemistry geeks, it is the pressure caused by the force of the molecules bouncing off of the walls of the container. The key to understanding the difference between static and dynamic pressure lies in the velocity of the gas. Dynamic pressure is only a momentum effect due to the bulk motion of the fluid around an obstacle. Static pressure is an intrinsic property of a gas or fluid just because the molecules of the fluid are moving around. Any fluid which is moving can have BOTH dynamic and static pressure, but a fluid at rest only has static pressure.

The point of ram air would be to increase the static pressure, which would correspond to an increase in the in-cylinder air density, and of course, more air. Superchargers and turbochargers do what the mythical ram air purports to do. A supercharger trades the power of the belt and uses it to compress the air in the intake tract. This energy trade-off results in an increase in intake air pressure, more air in the cylinders, more fuel burned, and more power. A turbocharger trades the power of the hot gases and uses it to compress the air in the intake. The overall effect is the same ? an increase in intake static pressure.

For ram air to work, it would have to trade the energy of the air?s velocity (as the vehicle moves through the air)

borrowed from a corvette site




so to sum it up yes its an improvement, and the way the stock crossovers degrade and destroy turbos a worth investment and JUST a FYI AIR wouldnt compress until mach .3 thats 102.08 meters per second or 3.2 feet per second or about 228.3464566929134 Miles per Hour, so for the stock airbox to be at a "above-atmospheric pressure level" you would need to be doing 30% of the speed of sound
 
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turbodig

Active member
Re: Air box

The stock box receives cool air from in front of the core support, which is an above-atmospheric pressure level, almost 4 feet from the turbo. This improvement receives hot under-hood air after it passes through the radiator, and ambient heat from the turbo that is only 8" away, at possibly a negative pressure level..

This is an improvement?

I've been beating this dead horse for 10+ years, Dave. People will believe what they want to believe.
 

warmpancakes

New member
Re: Air box

the only reason PAS kept the stock airbox was simple it was one less thing that had to get emissions certified it already passed NVH and was good for the EPA and it allowed them to keep the stock battery location. remember there was little to no budget for these trucks as it was PAS not GM building them
 

turbodig

Active member
Re: Air box

the only reason PAS kept the stock airbox was simple it was one less thing that had to get emissions certified it already passed NVH and was good for the EPA and it allowed them to keep the stock battery location. remember there was little to no budget for these trucks as it was PAS not GM building them

I'm sure that's probably quite true.

There's also a reason that almost every turbo or supercharged vehicle, from the factory, has an inlet to the airbox that comes from somewhere outside the engine compartment.

People aren't getting the gains they think they are with an open-element filter in that side of the engine compartment. Do the compressor math... a 20-30 degree drop in intake temps is *huge* in terms of outlet temps.

Which is not to say that an intake can't be made to work on that side of the engine compartment- it's just that the way it's typically implemented completely ignores the significant temp issues.

If people want to do it "right" - encase the filter (like ATR attempted to do) and pop a hole through the core support so that fresh air can come from the front of the truck.
 

warmpancakes

New member
Re: Air box

I'm sure that's probably quite true.

There's also a reason that almost every turbo or supercharged vehicle, from the factory, has an inlet to the airbox that comes from somewhere outside the engine compartment.

People aren't getting the gains they think they are with an open-element filter in that side of the engine compartment. Do the compressor math... a 20-30 degree drop in intake temps is *huge* in terms of outlet temps.

Which is not to say that an intake can't be made to work on that side of the engine compartment- it's just that the way it's typically implemented completely ignores the significant temp issues.

If people want to do it "right" - encase the filter (like ATR attempted to do) and pop a hole through the core support so that fresh air can come from the front of the truck.


the atr kit was good I think some insulation and a few other mods would have made it better I like the KB kit better because of the "plastic" box as it was better and not being heat soaked, also keep in mind the stock crossover tube will get heat soaked from sitting on the radiator,

a all out max effort system would be like Ed hess where it came out the headlamp hole, That with plastic tubes would be the most effective system, But on a street car thats not going to work. So were stuck with what we have to work with. Now The east coast guy who cut the fender and used the atr Kit that was interesting :myclone: Some where packed away I have a few air flow tubes that measure temp and velocity (from days in calibration lab) I might have to find them and put them to useage perhaps a better system can be built :tup:
 

warmpancakes

New member
Re: Air box

I
Which is not to say that an intake can't be made to work on that side of the engine compartment- it's just that the way it's typically implemented completely ignores the significant temp issues.
.

a idea would be to encase the filter below the battery tray or remove the battery tray and build a ceramic coated "case" for the filter and create a "scoop" below the bumper I have been looking for one of the old fox chassis mustang scoops that march performance makes to play with :tup:
 

gkrcr882

SyTyless......for now!
Re: Air box

I got rid of the stock crossover simply because it was beginning to break. I made an inlet pipe from a gutter cleaning kit for an old leafblower, and it works fine. It may not add any power whatsoever, but it eliminates a deteriorating part that could destroy the turbo.
 

Beavis

Still plays with trucks
Re: Air box

I took out the stock air box and put in a K&N filter today. When I pulled the box out it has a hose coming off of it and going into the valve cover. I started the TY. up and it had suction to it. Dose anyone know what this hose is for or how important it is? I just took a valve cover breather filter and hose clamped it to the end of the hose to keep dirt from going into my motor for now.

The stock box receives cool air from in front of the core support, which is an above-atmospheric pressure level, almost 4 feet from the turbo. This improvement receives hot under-hood air after it passes through the radiator, and ambient heat from the turbo that is only 8" away, at possibly a negative pressure level..

This is an improvement?

You'll have to forgive Dave, he is a purist and believes EVERYTHING on these trucks were engineered 100% correct, doesn't need to be changed and that their is no benefit to most modifications.

A breather on that valve cover will be fine. Just make sure the pass side pcv system is hooked up and in good operating order and you should be fine. :2cents:
 

cloneman315

Active member
Re: Air box

yeah I never understood the ricer idea of the hot air kit!!!I have the atr it works pretty well.I always ran breathers on both sides with no pcv,no problems so far anyways
 

Beavis

Still plays with trucks
Re: Air box

The idea of those hoses from the valve covers to the intake tract is to evacuate the oil vapors. The 2 reasons why as I know it are, 1 to reduce oil sludge and varnish deposits and 2 to burn the vapors for emission. There might be more reasons but those are the most important ones I learned about. If you don't have some form of a pcv system, you may want to consider it....:2cents:
 

cloneman315

Active member
Re: Air box

nope got those nice breathers from mike lee that unscrew,maybe every 3 times out you may get a small run down them.
 

Typhoon #2131

SAVE THE TA-TAS
Re: Air box

Wow I had no idea there was so much study and info on air boxes...lol. Thanks for the info guy's. So am I understanding you right that the way I have mine just coming off the cross tube and hanging there in front of the ABS and next to the oil filter that I'm hurting it more then improving it?
 
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