Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

Or any high Zinc and phosphorus containing oils? Have you had a chance to look at your engine to check for wear of lack of wear? I think I'm gonna run it as much as possible in my new engine. Just looking for people that have used it and their experiences. Thanks.
 

Gnocide

turbo game burt reynolds
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

Or any high Zinc and phosphorus containing oils? Have you had a chance to look at your engine to check for wear of lack of wear? I think I'm gonna run it as much as possible in my new engine. Just looking for people that have used it and their experiences. Thanks.

yes its the real deal

not really needed for our trucks

very needed for grand nationals and anything older that that

its for flat tappet cams mostly also -lifters -push rods -piston wrist pins ect
 
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Gnocide

turbo game burt reynolds
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

I wouldn't say it's not needed. It does more than just help with flat tappet cams.

true
but the loose tolerances of older engines that required sm oil was its main focus.

roller cams don't wear or burn in like flat tappets do
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

I use Delo 400 Diesel oil. Normally straight 30W, which is good for cold-starts down to 40ºF. If you need to cold-start at colder temps, then the Delo 400 15/40 should be used. The zinc and phosphorous levels in these oils is similar to the old SH spec 'gasoline' oil. My engines sound better too (tighter and less 'rattle' cold) than they did with 10/30.

I just paid $17.20 per gallon for 15/40. At $5.00 a quart for 'regular' oil, and $10.00 for the bottle of ZDDP, I saved almost $13.00 in material for a 4qt oil change.

Delo is good, and designed for long change intervals, so I have increased my change interval to 7,500 miles or 12-18 months in all my cars. Including my SyTy's. I'm sure some here will roll their eyes at my oil-change strategy, but I've been using the Delo 30W since 2000 in every car I own. Including the Corvette and SyTy's. Can't say I've torn any of these engines down, they're all still running, so I can't report what the bearings look like.

I'm happy with my strategy. I don't need to use, so have no experience with ZDDP.
 

johnboy89

Member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

I use Delo 400 Diesel oil. Normally straight 30W, which is good for cold-starts down to 40ºF. If you need to cold-start at colder temps, then the Delo 400 15/40 should be used. The zinc and phosphorous levels in these oils is similar to the old SH spec 'gasoline' oil. My engines sound better too (tighter and less 'rattle' cold) than they did with 10/30.

I just paid $17.20 per gallon for 15/40. At $5.00 a quart for 'regular' oil, and $10.00 for the bottle of ZDDP, I saved almost $13.00 in material for a 4qt oil change.

Delo is good, and designed for long change intervals, so I have increased my change interval to 7,500 miles or 12-18 months in all my cars. Including my SyTy's. I'm sure some here will roll their eyes at my oil-change strategy, but I've been using the Delo 30W since 2000 in every car I own. Including the Corvette and SyTy's. Can't say I've torn any of these engines down, they're all still running, so I can't report what the bearings look like.

I'm happy with my strategy. I don't need to use, so have no experience with ZDDP.

Where can you find this oil????
 

Gnocide

turbo game burt reynolds
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

diesel oil is for diesel applications.
Diesel engines are built to different tolerances ,valve train specs and fuel combustion.

in particular tolerances of bearings- friction modifiers- etc are all completely different in gas engines.

even though it does have zinc and phosphorus in it they are not the correct mixture for longevity of older flat tappet cams motors - ask any engine builder worth a grain of salt.

that's why every single oil company is now offering this for older cars pre 1987

but syty engines are roller cams
of everything out there -zddplus is the best of the best
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

Where can you find this oil????

John:

What did the bearings in the engine that came in your Ty look like when you took it apart? They had been running on Delo 400 30W for 30,000 miles.... Change interval on that engine was about every 5K.
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

diesel oil is for diesel applications.
ask any engine builder worth a grain of salt.

This pic was taken in my shop a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if my opinion is worth "a grain of salt", but I am definitely "an engine builder". Have been for 40 years. I build for both my own and clients' uses, operate them, and pay attention to how they run and what they look like upon tear-down for repairs. I'm also responsible for their longevity, and durability, so I'm very careful about what spec oil I put in them. I didn't arrive at my current oil-use strategy by guessing. It is very calculated and researched. If you wish to ignore my input, fine. But it was formed over many decades of experience.
IMG_2323_zpsec2f0463.jpg



Here's what matters about oil. It's not the engine it goes into, but the API Specification. It's the "doughnut symbol" with the two letters. The S* spec is the gasoline spec. Virtually all oils have specs for both engine types. Delo 400 15/40 is spec SI or the 15/40 LE is SJ. Either of these specs require the oil to contain properties for the gas engines the spec was developed for. In the case of SI, the zinc and phosphorous concentrations are a little higher than the SJ, but in both cases suitable for the sliding-surface valve trains the spec was originally developed for.

The current SM spec is for modern engines with catalytic emissions systems that are affected by the presence of zinc and phosphorus in the exhaust. So these compounds are reduced in SM spec oil.

This is the crux of the current problem. The current spec oil SM. Use an earlier spec oil like SI or SJ, and you get the higher levels of the compounds engines with sliding-surface valve trains require. The fact that oils with these specs also have diesel specs is irrelevant. They are very suitable for spark-ignition engines. My "engine builder" says so. :D
 

datsunguy

New member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

This pic was taken in my shop a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if my opinion is worth "a grain of salt", but I am definitely "an engine builder". Have been for 40 years. I build for both my own and clients' uses, operate them, and pay attention to how they run and what they look like upon tear-down for repairs. I'm also responsible for their longevity, and durability, so I'm very careful about what spec oil I put in them. I didn't arrive at my current oil-use strategy by guessing. It is very calculated and researched. If you wish to ignore my input, fine. But it was formed over many decades of experience.
IMG_2323_zpsec2f0463.jpg



Here's what matters about oil. It's not the engine it goes into, but the API Specification. It's the "doughnut symbol" with the two letters. The S* spec is the gasoline spec. Virtually all oils have specs for both engine types. Delo 400 15/40 is spec SI or the 15/40 LE is SJ. Either of these specs require the oil to contain properties for the gas engines the spec was developed for. In the case of SI, the zinc and phosphorous concentrations are a little higher than the SJ, but in both cases suitable for the sliding-surface valve trains the spec was originally developed for.

The current SM spec is for modern engines with catalytic emissions systems that are affected by the presence of zinc and phosphorus in the exhaust. So these compounds are reduced in SM spec oil.

This is the crux of the current problem. The current spec oil SM. Use an earlier spec oil like SI or SJ, and you get the higher levels of the compounds engines with sliding-surface valve trains require. The fact that oils with these specs also have diesel specs is irrelevant. They are very suitable for spark-ignition engines. My "engine builder" says so. :D

I agree to your logic. I used Delo 400 in my little 4 banger to break in the fresh head and crank bearings I installed this summer. I also added Red Line Zinc Additive just to be cautious. I ran that for 2000 miles, drained it, and put Delo 400 right back in.

My question is this: I am deleting the remote oil setup on my Sy. Guys are recommending synthetic for cooler running tempatures since the delete also takes the oil cooler out of the equation. What is the best synthetic rating I should go with given your write-up? I don't believe anyone makes a 30w Synthetic. (Edit: found many manufacturers who make Synthetic 30w i.e. amsoil, royal purple etc.)
 
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blue83z

Donating Member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

I run the zddp in my 87 Turbo T, but dont have enough miles on it to know if it is doing any good. I run it in any "older" car, as the $10 per bottle is much less than any type of repair needed.
I buy it from Kirban Performance, they are big into Grand Nationals, etc.
 

johnboy89

Member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

John:

What did the bearings in the engine that came in your Ty look like when you took it apart? They had been running on Delo 400 30W for 30,000 miles.... Change interval on that engine was about every 5K.

Bearings were fine when I pulled it apart!!!!!!

I'm no engine analysis expert, but saw nothing that oil would have been a contributing factor.

Seems like alot of people toast bearings in these trucks, could this oil alleviate or eliminate some of those???? I don't know just throwing it out there???
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

Bearings were fine when I pulled it apart.
I had a feeling this was going to be the case.

I'm no engine analysis expert, but saw nothing that oil would have been a contributing factor.
Correct, your engine failure had nothing to do with lubrication.

Seems like a lot of people toast bearings in these trucks, could this oil alleviate or eliminate some of those? I don't know just throwing it out there?
Makes me smile when someone gets it.
I strongly feel that going to straight 30W has a LOT to do with reducing bearing / crankshaft failures and wear in highly-loaded engines. SyTy and Diesel engines meet my definition of "highly -loaded". The Delo 400 30W is API Spec SH, which is an older gasoline spec, however it's still suitable for use in our engines.

Selecting a viscosity has many variables. Temperature at cold-start is probably the most important. Economy is another. And one I thought of in the shower just now: The elimination of the cooler and larger oil filter. The oil will run a little hotter, and the PF-40 oil filter is smaller, so the bypass will be open sooner / longer allowing unfiltered oil to enter the engine more readily than with the original bigger filter.

For frequent cold starts at ambient temps of 40º F or lower, or on a SyTy with block-mounted oil filter, the mufti-grade may be a better choice. Research and decide.

Thanks for the feedback on the bearing condition in your engine.
 

Gnocide

turbo game burt reynolds
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

This pic was taken in my shop a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if my opinion is worth "a grain of salt", but I am definitely "an engine builder". Have been for 40 years. I build for both my own and clients' uses, operate them, and pay attention to how they run and what they look like upon tear-down for repairs. I'm also responsible for their longevity, and durability, so I'm very careful about what spec oil I put in them. I didn't arrive at my current oil-use strategy by guessing. It is very calculated and researched. If you wish to ignore my input, fine. But it was formed over many decades of experience.
IMG_2323_zpsec2f0463.jpg



Here's what matters about oil. It's not the engine it goes into, but the API Specification. It's the "doughnut symbol" with the two letters. The S* spec is the gasoline spec. Virtually all oils have specs for both engine types. Delo 400 15/40 is spec SI or the 15/40 LE is SJ. Either of these specs require the oil to contain properties for the gas engines the spec was developed for. In the case of SI, the zinc and phosphorous concentrations are a little higher than the SJ, but in both cases suitable for the sliding-surface valve trains the spec was originally developed for.

The current SM spec is for modern engines with catalytic emissions systems that are affected by the presence of zinc and phosphorus in the exhaust. So these compounds are reduced in SM spec oil.

This is the crux of the current problem. The current spec oil SM. Use an earlier spec oil like SI or SJ, and you get the higher levels of the compounds engines with sliding-surface valve trains require. The fact that oils with these specs also have diesel specs is irrelevant. They are very suitable for spark-ignition engines. My "engine builder" says so. :D

actually your opinion isn't worth a grain of salt as you do not mass manufacturer or design engines , professional race or build engines on a national level.

here is the actual science behind it not the seat of the pants" hows your bearings look -mine are fine "reasoning

http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief6 -...sic and High-Performance Gasoline Engines.pdf
 
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blackty

Active member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

I'd bet money that Dave has built more than a few race engines. Little birdie told me, but, I'm not going to force my beliefs on anyone...Jim
 

Gnocide

turbo game burt reynolds
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

I'd bet money that Dave has built more than a few race engines. Little birdie told me, but, I'm not going to force my beliefs on anyone...Jim
hes a great mechanic im sure and a good person
however
facts add up read it
it can be mathematically proven

hes no chemist/engineer
 

Damian

Member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

That article only says that it's bad on catalytic converters and may cause buildup on he exhaust valves. Even it says in he link that you can use diesel oils in gasoline engines.
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

Here's some poop on Mobil-1. Note that there are several selections with Zn and P concentrations greater than 800. The old SH oils were in the 1200 range. Higher than this is detrimental in street engines that may not be completely warmed up on every drive. (Your link on ZDDP mentions this as well). High Zn and P is as detrimental as it is by being too low.

Here's some poop on Delo 400 Unfortunately it doesn't list Zn and P in PPM, but by weight, so direct comparison isn't possible.


Anyway, engines with roller lifters aren't really affected by the low Zn and P levels in modern oil. Selecting the correct viscosity is much more important for bearing life than the additive package. And I'm happy with my selection.

So are my clients, and that's all I really care about. They pay me. No one on here does.
 
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Gnocide

turbo game burt reynolds
Re: Anyone been using ZDDPlus?

Damien
you need to read indent 1 and number 2 as to why not-
yes that takes you beyond the first paragraph

couple points here

i use it religiously for 87 and pre 87 engines with flat tappet cams.

i don't use any additive for the typhoon at all.

i change 5000 intervals like Dave and at 87,000 on mine i can promise you my factory bearings are every bit as good as the 30000 mile engine jonboy has.

i don't push or recommend anything outside of what the manufacture recommends for any engine

i also don't lead people to think that something has the proper numbers and percentages of zinc and phosphorus when it clearly doesn't to save money or whatever

im happy your engines are great Dave
im willing to bet if you used the correct weight regular oil all would also have the exact same outcome on the bearings without using diesel oil
- and why wouldn't they they are all beyond 1987
 
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