Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

ok, i need some guidance here oh wise ones....

Is there any reason we can't clamp the wheel in place using the crank pulley? Would offsetting the belt 3/8" cause a problem/excessive rubbing? If not, this could be a viable way to clamp it.

Or, we could clamp it on the engine side and just use extended crank pulley bolts, and use nuts on the backside to hold the wheel on. the 3 ears could be machined down from 3/8" to say 1/8" so that the pulley doesn't sit as far away from the stock location.

thoughts?

Also, how big do the notches in the wheel need to be? how wide and how deep?

(note: i didn't spend a ton of time making this symmetric, just trying to get the overall design down, and then i'll make it symmetrical so its as balanced as possible. So please disregard any obvious non-symmetry on this draft)

 

[sytyguy]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Yeah, offsetting the pulley anymore than 1/8-1/4 will start to throw belts, shred belts, and cause general nastiness. Heck, a dented PS pulley can destroy a belt.

One thing that might work (and I'll let Dig determine that to be true) is using longer bolts for the pulley (bolts that go all the way thru the balancer and protrude 3/4-1" out the back) and then using nuts on the backside to clamp the ring in place. May not work well though.

 

[4C FED]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Just thinking out loud here. Why does the ring need to be flat?
Keep the mounting surface thin by starting out with a thick piece and then machine the backside so that the damper sits recessed in the ring or vice versa, the pulley sits recessed in the ring..

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

becuase changing caps/rotors/wires/plugs all the time (well for those that actually can drive their truck) gets real old.

The constant worrying about is my cap/rotor plugs upto par. It wouldp robably promote more consitency and perhap add a touch bit more HP because we would have to run so narrow spark plug gaps.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Just thinking out loud here. Why does the ring need to be flat?
Keep the mounting surface thin by starting out with a thick piece and then machine the backside so that the damper sits recessed in the ring or vice versa, the pulley sits recessed in the ring..

Because we're not machining the ring... it's being cut from flat stock.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Yeah, offsetting the pulley anymore than 1/8-1/4 will start to throw belts, shred belts, and cause general nastiness. Heck, a dented PS pulley can destroy a belt.

One thing that might work (and I'll let Dig determine that to be true) is using longer bolts for the pulley (bolts that go all the way thru the balancer and protrude 3/4-1" out the back) and then using nuts on the backside to clamp the ring in place. May not work well though.

It'd work fine, except there isn't much space behind the stock balancer to allow for much of a wheel thickness and any crank play/flex.

Also requires balancer removal to install.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Also requires balancer removal to install.

if we're making this to work w/ a specific balancer, then thats not really an issue.

Another question about the slots on the ring....If the notches are supposed to be say every 60 degrees....do the notch START at 60, is the middle of the notch at 60, or the end of it at 60?

 

[fivetodrive]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I have also looked for thinner lower pulleys but have not found one yet in my junkyarding. All of the pulleys with a serp belt on the 4.3's seem to be about the same width. Anyone have an idea to another vehicle that may have a different lower pulley?

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Also, how big do the notches in the wheel need to be? how wide and how deep?

(note: i didn't spend a ton of time making this symmetric, just trying to get the overall design down, and then i'll make it symmetrical so its as balanced as possible. So please disregard any obvious non-symmetry on this draft)

This has some minor errors in it, but is generally correct: (Big thanks to Mike Prom for the drawings!)

The 10 degree separation should be center to center, as should the separation of all the other notches (60 deg on center)

This ring will be cut in half at 2 of the notches. Screwed on plates will hold the wheel together once it's on. Might need a cross screw to tighten the 2 halves together (clamping it to the rear balancer wheel.

It's looking more and more like the sensor bracket will have to be based off of timing cover bolts, as the accessory brackets are in the way of the other bolt holes.

More soon...

 

[THEMADTYPH00N]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I have also looked for thinner lower pulleys but have not found one yet in my junkyarding. All of the pulleys with a serp belt on the 4.3's seem to be about the same width. Anyone have an idea to another vehicle that may have a different lower pulley?

3rd gen camaros and TBI Trucks use the same type of pullies I believe. Might try one of them.

 

[fivetodrive]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Looked at more pulleys and found that the v6 camaro pulley and the 2.8 s-10 is much shorter but it has 4 bolts holding it on... The TBI truck is the same size as ours... I will keep looking...

 

[UR50SLO]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

The constant worrying about is my cap/rotor plugs upto par. It wouldp robably promote more consitency and perhap add a touch bit more HP because we would have to run so narrow spark plug gaps.

Besides the Crap combustion chamber we are stuck with the 4.3L If we get a DIS System on here we'll be able to run .35 gap and not have the annoying spark blow out we all have. Coming from the Turbo Buick crowd which is DIS stock it's VERY annoying to have such a junk ignition system and spark blow out all the time. That's why I'd wanted to do somthing about it.
Glad you guys are making some progress on it from what it sounds like.
It'll realy pay off if it gets done.
~Scott

 

[Maverick87]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Ok a stupid question. If you offset the crank pulley say 1/4" forward why can you not just space the rest of the brackets out the same so the belt would line up. Its not like the brackets rest competly flat on the heads and block. Then the only thing would be spacing the water pump pulley out with some longer bolts and a spacer.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Ok a stupid question. If you offset the crank pulley say 1/4" forward why can you not just space the rest of the brackets out the same so the belt would line up. Its not like the brackets rest competly flat on the heads and block. Then the only thing would be spacing the water pump pulley out with some longer bolts and a spacer.

because we'd rather this be a quicker bolt on product rather than having to uninstall all the accessories first.

 

[Maverick87]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Guess I'm to used to working on this thing for pulling the accessories to bother me LOL

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I was looking at things a bit more this last weekend...

You *could* get a .250 thick wheel behind the stock balancer. This would leave about .100
clearance between it and the timing cover.

This would allow it to be bolted to the balancer from the back, provided that you used some countersunk allen screws that didn't stick out.

This would mean the balancer would have to be removed to install the wheel. This wasn't my first preference, but it looks like it's most direct way.

Also, this should allow it to work on aftermarket balancers, with a spacer.

The bracket is gonna have to go on the timing cover bolts... there's no way around it.

Gonna do some more plywood mock-ups... more to come...

 

[fivetodrive]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I was looking at Nolan's gallery and saw this...

How did they overcome the pulley spacing issue?

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I was looking at Nolan's gallery and saw this...

How did they overcome the pulley spacing issue?

Good question. My guess would be that the balancer has a different height, or the pulley is different.

You could also space the brackets out to make this work... but it keeps coming back to not being an easy to bolt-in system. (The original goal)

I've been measuring things on my motor, now that it's together enough to do that, and it really looks like you could fit a 1/4" plate in between the stock balancer and the timing cover.

 

[fivetodrive]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

You could also space the brackets out to make this work... but it keeps coming back to not being an easy to bolt-in system. (The original goal)

I never thought of spacing out the brackets... But you are right that would be a pain in the butt... But not so bad for me if I have the front of the truck off...

I should have the front of my truck off this weekend and I will be able to see all of that stuff pretty easy! I think that this time the front end will go on last... That is when I figure out how to get it off

I will send Nolan a PM I guess and ask him what he did. Maybe get an answer on if he changed the dampner...

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I never thought of spacing out the brackets... But you are right that would be a pain in the butt... But not so bad for me if I have the front of the truck off...

I should have the front of my truck off this weekend and I will be able to see all of that stuff pretty easy! I think that this time the front end will go on last... That is when I figure out how to get it off

I will send Nolan a PM I guess and ask him what he did. Maybe get an answer on if he changed the dampner...

Go look at the exploded parts diagrams at one of the GM parts sites... should help you locate all the bolts.