No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

alwayscode390

pppssssshhhhhtttttttttttt
My truck is in the shop. I asked for a tune-up ( distributor swap, module, cap, rotor, coil, wires, and plugs ).

I get a call today that the distributor is firing but my injectors stopped pulsing.

This could be related to my alarm system ( I am not sure if it stops the injectors or just the starter ).

I just wanted to ask on here in case there is a common problem related to injector pulses and distributor swaps.

The ignition control module should make the tach flutter , and send the pulse right?

Thanks :) ---
 
Last edited:

berzerker

wookie
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

sounds like one of the wiring harness plugs didn't det hook up to the dist . to me
 

alwayscode390

pppssssshhhhhtttttttttttt
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

Good point, I think the injector harness is back there ... maybe he bumped into it and unplugged it? ---
 

KBowman

Donating Member
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

I would have them put your old distributer back in and see if it starts. If it does the ign modgul is bad or the wrong one in the new distributer.
 

alwayscode390

pppssssshhhhhtttttttttttt
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

I will make sure to tell him about the tach flutter.

My old distributor was rusty and died on me the other day ... hence the truck being in the shop.

It may work with a new cap/rotor though ... thanks :) ---
 

alwayscode390

pppssssshhhhhtttttttttttt
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

Actually thats a good point. It may not have been ... ---
 

warmpancakes

New member
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

they called to tell you they broke your truck and wanted help to fix it? Find a new shop
 

alwayscode390

pppssssshhhhhtttttttttttt
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

I wont take it back there again.

Hes blaming it on my alarm system shutting down the injectors ... but I am not even sure my alarm is wired into the injectors.

The truck sat for the last 4 months , so the alarm is getting finicky ( the battery was taken out ). Thats the only reason I am considering his idea.

I think he disconnected the harness while installing the distributor. The bad thing is the longer he DIAGNOSES it ... the more it costs me. Thats the only reason I am trying to help , hahah ... pretty sad, I know.

It sucks not having a place to do this stuff myself ---
 

TYTILIDIE

METH HEAD
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

Aren't there any other SYTYers in your area? I'd have them help you out. Sounds like you may need an ecm. If you have datamaster, you could figure this out pretty quick I am sure.
 

KBowman

Donating Member
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

Aren't there any other SYTYers in your area? I'd have them help you out. Sounds like you may need an ecm. If you have datamaster, you could figure this out pretty quick I am sure.
__________________
Mike
92 TY#0073
93 TY#0965-Wife's TY

4 out of 3 people have problems with fractions.

Good idea. You can use my driveway anytime. I have tools too! I am thinking about having a wrenchfest soon anyways.
 

DaveP

Active member
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

Is the check engine light on with the key on? If not, there will be no injector pulses.

If the TPS voltage is above 2.5-3.0V V there won't be any injection. It goes into "clear flood". If there's a bad connection at the TPS ground wire, the ECM will see 4.5V = WOT = Clear flood. No injection in clear flood.

Remove one injector connector. Turn key on. There should be 12V to ground on one terminal. Put voltmeter across the two term. Crank engine. Voltage should pulse. (On a VOM use the bars at the bottom of the display to see the pulse. Not the digital reading).

When they are saying "it's your alarm" maybe they think it has a VATS system like a Corvette or Camaro. It doesn't. all they have to do is look at the key to see that.

If you drove it in, and they have to push it out, you shouldn't have to pay.
 

alwayscode390

pppssssshhhhhtttttttttttt
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

The check engine light has never been on since I bought the truck 5 years ago.

I was actually driving it in , when the truck died and I had to get it towed in.

I was heading to the shop for some driveline work ( gilbert prop and some suspension goodies ). Now I know why everyone on here says to keep these vehicles out of the shops!!!

The mechanic told me he is getting fuel from the rear, and spark ... but no pulse. He took the ECM out from under the dash and checked everything out. Checked all fuses.

Told me I need a new starter too ... I brought up the purple wire fix and he looked at me like I was silly.

Thanks guys :) ---
 

The Bronze

New member
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

If your injectors really are not pulsing:


I am lazy. Had I swapped out the distributor and had no injector pulse I would plug my scan tool into it. If my scan gives me data and I see no engine RPM, I would be replacing the ignition control module. I would have not screwed up the connections though. Your mechanic's results might vary...:roll:

The correct diagnostic strategy, not leaving anything to chance if you don't hear injectors clicking: (If you want to skip the first paragraph because you KNOW that you didn't do anything to distrupt power to the PCM you could skip right to the XXX paragraph below and just check for the 1-2 V signal , substituting the the 4 pin connector (PIN C / Purple/White) at the distributor. If you have spark, but no injector pulse, you can go ahead and put your QUALITY replacement module in and skip all these nifty steps):

At the PCM pins C12 (Green) and C11 (Blue) check to see if battery voltage (B+) is present with the Key-On. If there is no voltage present, then you have an open circuit (harness disconnected) or blown fuse (ECM) or some other variation of weirdness that doesn't allow voltage to migrate to the injector drivers through the injector circuit. You can also verify A6 (Pink/Black) has power as it comes from the same fuse, but prior to the injectors.

If B+ is present,then crank it over. With a test light on the C12 or C11 pins at the PCM (and the other end of the test light on a GOOD ground), you should get a flashing light as you crank it, each time the light shuts off would indicate the injector driver is turning the injectors ON. If you have a flashing light, then their diagnosis is bunk and look towards fuel pressure. Of course, that doesn't mean the injectors are mechanically opening (like they suddenly had 100psi feed pressure preventing the seats from opening).

If the test light doesn't flash, then the PCM isn't getting something it needs. To convince the injectors to open doesn't take much:

PINS A and B identify the black 24 pin connector
PINS C and D identify the black 32 pin connector
PINS E and F identify the lt green 32 pin connector

Powers at the PCM:
B1 and C16, these always have B+
A6, B+ with ignition on

Grounds at the PCM:
A12 (Black/White)
D1 (Tan/White)
D9 (Black/Red) Ignition ground
Definitely D7 and C13, as these are the injector grounds (Black/White)

XXX Then verify C7 or D8 (the Purple/White wire) has a square wave. With a meter, it will be a small voltage, probably around 1-2V, although a scope would show a proper signal, with proper amplitude at both signal high and signal low. This is the signal that has the injector drivers closing, allowing current to flow and resulting in injectors opening. No voltage here and there is a pick-up coil or ignition module problem (if the coil isn't firing) or an ignition control module problem if it is. The control module will fire the coils and not send a signal to the PCM to fire the injectors if it is bad. You can test this by applying a 5V signal (tap it off the MAP sensor) to the Tan/Black bypass line. This would put the module into EST mode (computer controlled spark). If you loose spark, you likely don't have a reference signal from the ignition control module on pin D8 (Black 32 pin connector-Purple/White) wire.

With those few things, you will have an injector pulse. If you don't you have a bad PCM, or like someone else found out on the board, the wiring to the PCM was changed. Now add proper fuel pressure and proper timing of the spark that is allegedly there and it will start.

For the record, this is typical of GM. The syclone PCM strategy isn't different than the millions of fuel injected GM cars and trucks out there. If they can't figure the Syclone out, they couldn't figure out a cavalier or full size pickup no start either!
 
Last edited:

0966Sy

Code what?
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

The injector drivers fail in the ECM, tap on the ecm while cranking and see if it starts. What is your cranking voltage? The ECM needs at least 11volts to start.
 

wildphil

I Love My Ty's
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

Stupid Mechanics...It makes those that know something work three times as hard to gain motorists trust.

If your injectors really are not pulsing:


I am lazy. Had I swapped out the distributor and had no injector pulse I would plug my scan tool into it. If my scan gives me data and I see no engine RPM, I would be replacing the ignition control module. I would have not screwed up the connections though. Your mechanic's results might vary...:roll:

The correct diagnostic strategy, not leaving anything to chance if you don't hear injectors clicking: (If you want to skip the first paragraph because you KNOW that you didn't do anything to distrupt power to the PCM you could skip right to the XXX paragraph below and just check for the 1-2 V signal , substituting the the 4 pin connector (PIN C / Purple/White) at the distributor. If you have spark, but no injector pulse, you can go ahead and put your QUALITY replacement module in and skip all these nifty steps):

At the PCM pins C12 (Green) and C11 (Blue) check to see if battery voltage (B+) is present with the Key-On. If there is no voltage present, then you have an open circuit (harness disconnected) or blown fuse (ECM) or some other variation of weirdness that doesn't allow voltage to migrate to the injector drivers through the injector circuit. You can also verify A6 (Pink/Black) has power as it comes from the same fuse, but prior to the injectors.

If B+ is present,then crank it over. With a test light on the C12 or C11 pins at the PCM (and the other end of the test light on a GOOD ground), you should get a flashing light as you crank it, each time the light shuts off would indicate the injector driver is turning the injectors ON. If you have a flashing light, then their diagnosis is bunk and look towards fuel pressure. Of course, that doesn't mean the injectors are mechanically opening (like they suddenly had 100psi feed pressure preventing the seats from opening).

If the test light doesn't flash, then the PCM isn't getting something it needs. To convince the injectors to open doesn't take much:

Powers at the PCM:
B1 and C16, these always have B+
A6, B+ with ignition on

Grounds at the PCM:
A12 (Black/White)
D1 (Tan/White)
Definitely D7 and C13, as these are the injector grounds (Black/White)

XXX Then verify C7 or D8 (the Purple/White wire) has a square wave. With a meter, it will be a small voltage, probably around 1-2V, although a scope would show a proper signal, with proper amplitude at both signal high and signal low. This is the signal that has the injector drivers closing, allowing current to flow and resulting in injectors opening. No voltage here and there is a pick-up coil or ignition module problem (if the coil isn't firing) or an ignition control module problem if it is. The control module will fire the coils and not send a signal to the PCM to fire the injectors if it is bad. You can test this by applying a 5V signal (tap it off the MAP sensor) to the Tan/Black bypass line. This would put the module into EST mode (computer controlled spark). If you loose spark, you likely don't have a reference signal from the ignition control module on the C7 or D8 (Purple/White) wire. For the record, my notes show both of these connectors being Purple/White, but only 1 is correct)

With those few things, you will have an injector pulse. If you don't you have a bad PCM, or like someone else found out on the board, the wiring to the PCM was changed. Now add proper fuel pressure and proper timing of the spark that is allegedly there and it will start.

For the record, this is typical of GM. The syclone PCM strategy isn't different than the millions of fuel injected GM cars and trucks out there. If they can't figure the Syclone out, they couldn't figure out a cavalier or full size pickup no start either!


I vote to put this in the vault!
 

alwayscode390

pppssssshhhhhtttttttttttt
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

I just talked to him, if its not the Alarm acting up ... he thinks its the ECM.

He checked the control module and the injector harness ... both are fine.

How much and where can I find the SYTY ECM? Thanks!!! ---
 

powercat6

Active member
Re: No Injector Pulse after Distributor Swap ---

I just talked to him, if its not the Alarm acting up ... he thinks its the ECM.

He checked the control module and the injector harness ... both are fine.

How much and where can I find the SYTY ECM? Thanks!!! ---

I'd be hesitant to buy any parts based on the guy's lack of diagnostic skills.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/A1C0/777749.oap?keyword=engine+control+module&pt=01599&ppt=C0334

I'd hold onto your core until after you verify the ECM is the problem.
 
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