Tuning Help

[caci]

Just got my Sy from a relative (read all about it in the New Members section). Trying to set it up and I need help with a few things. I have some additional information about the truck since my initial post last week.

MIne is Sy #612 with about 32,000 miles.

Stock block with polished-journal crank, shot-peened rods and JE forged pistons (.030 over). Crank and piston/rods balanced.

L35 heads. Comp Cams 9-422-8 with 1.6 roller rockers.

ATR SS headers and exhaust . Cat delete.

PTE51 turbo. (51/51)

ATR aux I/C, Johnson I/C pump.

F.A.S.T. computer with WB O2.

GReddy Profec B Spec II Boost control.

Stock 700R4 and diff's

So far, my tuner has replaced the plugs (AFR was set super-rich, to avoid any possible damage to engine - previously blown head gasket on new build from too lean condition).

Also, Autometer Boost gauge was leaking at manifold connection (real fun when comparing to factory boost gauge, GReddy and F.A.S.T.) Later, we determined, through data-logging, that we probably ran up to 25psi @ 5000 rpm, while playing with the GReddy.

Anyway while trying to set up the GReddy last Wed., looks like the turbo blew a seal on the exhaust side - oil burning downstream.
This with less than 2 hrs. on the turbo.

I've sent the turbo to Turbochargers.com in Houston for repair and think I can salvage the $350 WB O2 sensor.

On that last Dyno run we got 348hp, 380torque @ 15 psi, 5500 rpm. This was with no real timing adjustment. IAT was at about 120 (ambient 80).

I'm shooting for 20 lbs boost and thinking this should yield about 400 hp at the same 5500, with fine tuning of AFR and Timing.

Anyone out there want to comment of what kind of redline I should be utilizing (usually limited by valvetrain - this one should be good to around 6500, due to proper springs).
I have no intention of running it that fast...

I want it all - performance, driveability and longetivity!! Emphasis on longetivity.

I appreciate any advice from fellow forum members and will try to answer any questions you all may have.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[turbodig]

Re: Tuning Help

Just got my Sy from a relative (read all about it in the New Members section). Trying to set it up and I need help with a few things. I have some additional information about the truck since my initial post last week.

MIne is Sy #612 with about 32,000 miles.

Stock block with polished-journal crank, shot-peened rods and JE forged pistons (.030 over). Crank and piston/rods balanced.

L35 heads. Comp Cams 9-422-8 with 1.6 roller rockers.

ATR SS headers and exhaust . Cat delete.

PTE51 turbo. (51/51)

ATR aux I/C, Johnson I/C pump.

F.A.S.T. computer with WB O2.

GReddy Profec B Spec II Boost control.

Stock 700R4 and diff's

So far, my tuner has replaced the plugs (AFR was set super-rich, to avoid any possible damage to engine - previously blown head gasket on new build from too lean condition).

Also, Autometer Boost gauge was leaking at manifold connection (real fun when comparing to factory boost gauge, GReddy and F.A.S.T.) Later, we determined, through data-logging, that we probably ran up to 25psi @ 5000 rpm, while playing with the GReddy.

Anyway while trying to set up the GReddy last Wed., looks like the turbo blew a seal on the exhaust side - oil burning downstream.
This with less than 2 hrs. on the turbo.

I've sent the turbo to Turbochargers.com in Houston for repair and think I can salvage the $350 WB O2 sensor.

On that last Dyno run we got 348hp, 380torque @ 15 psi, 5500 rpm. This was with no real timing adjustment. IAT was at about 120 (ambient 80).

I'm shooting for 20 lbs boost and thinking this should yield about 400 hp at the same 5500, with fine tuning of AFR and Timing.

Anyone out there want to comment of what kind of redline I should be utilizing (usually limited by valvetrain - this one should be good to around 6500, due to proper springs).
I have no intention of running it that fast...

I want it all - performance, driveability and longetivity!! Emphasis on longetivity.

I appreciate any advice from fellow forum members and will try to answer any questions you all may have.

Thanks,
Chris

Your trans is a ticking time bomb. Start assembling cash for a 4L80E conversion.

I wouldn't spin it past 6000 very often, and regularly I wouldn't take it past 5600 much.
The valvetrain isn't the limiting factor. Furthermore, you don't need the revs.

 

[caci]

Re: Tuning Help

Thanks - I was considering limiting the revs to 5500. But you do think that I'll be safe at that level, right?

Also, will retrofit 4L80E when the 700R4 explodes.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[cloneman315]

Re: Tuning Help

5500 should be safe even a little more once in a while

 

[caci]

Re: Tuning Help

5500 should be safe even a little more once in a while

OK, what about boost? Is 20psi a safe level, based on my bottom end build information?

When setting up my FAST, my tuner will monitor knock (counts) and IAT.
I'm sure that the info is somewhere here on the forum, but what should the maximum spread be between ambient and IAT, say at 85 degree farht. ( I live in N. Texas)?

My plan is set up the GReddy for a 15psi & 20psi Max ( 2 profiles?).
Of course if 20psi yields too high an IAT and/or detonation, it will have to be reduced, or else look for a cause. The aux. intercooler, Johnson pump and 50 lb. injecters are there to help prevent above problems, right?

 

[turbodig]

Re: Tuning Help

OK, what about boost? Is 20psi a safe level, based on my bottom end build information?

Not on pump gas, unless you spray a lot of alky. You'll be picking up parts.

Max street boost is whatever your truck will take without sensor-indicated and plug-indicated knock, minus 1.5 psi. While running the cheapest gast that you normally run.

Believe it or not, variations in pump gas can change the amount of boost you can run by as much as 3-4 psi. Even though the sticker sez 92 octane, there's no guarantee that's what you're getting.

When setting up my FAST, my tuner will monitor knock (counts) and IAT.
I'm sure that the info is somewhere here on the forum, but what should the maximum spread be between ambient and IAT, say at 85 degree farht. ( I live in N. Texas)?

This varies greatly from intercooler to intercooler. In general, you shouldn't see much above
a 140 degree outlet temp, worst-case. Good behavior is around 120. Repeated passes will push this number higher.

My plan is set up the GReddy for a 15psi & 20psi Max ( 2 profiles?).
Of course if 20psi yields too high an IAT and/or detonation, it will have to be reduced, or else look for a cause. The aux. intercooler, Johnson pump and 50 lb. injecters are there to help prevent above problems, right?

Don't let the aux IC and Johnson pump lull you into a false sense of complacency. They aren't a cure-all.


The fuel is the big thing with the FAST, and knock. I'm a bit skeptical about the ability of the aftermarket ECUs to accurately represent knock. The stock ECU doesn't do it so well, and it's specifically tuned to our motor. The noteable exception might be the bigstuff, but it hasn't had that much time to play out in the wild.

Bottom line, don't believe that just because the FAST isn't indicating knock, that there isn't any. The plugs may show you otherwise.

Keep it richer on pump gas... 11.0 or maybe richer. (Depends on what the truck likes)
Race gas, you can lean it out a bit. 11.9-12.0 or so. There are people who go leaner, but the price of riding that line is broken parts.

I typically find ECUs that are poorly tuned at part throttle... if the guy doesn't spend at least 2-3 hours driving around with you, he didn't get you a good driveability tune. There is quite a bit to gain in the transitions between part and full throttle.

There have also been a fair number of motors that have blown up during part throttle operation. Detonation can occur anywhere.

 

[caci]

Re: Tuning Help

Not on pump gas, unless you spray a lot of alky. You'll be picking up parts.

Max street boost is whatever your truck will take without sensor-indicated and plug-indicated knock, minus 1.5 psi. While running the cheapest gast that you normally run.

Believe it or not, variations in pump gas can change the amount of boost you can run by as much as 3-4 psi. Even though the sticker sez 92 octane, there's no guarantee that's what you're getting.



This varies greatly from intercooler to intercooler. In general, you shouldn't see much above
a 140 degree outlet temp, worst-case. Good behavior is around 120. Repeated passes will push this number higher.



Don't let the aux IC and Johnson pump lull you into a false sense of complacency. They aren't a cure-all.


The fuel is the big thing with the FAST, and knock. I'm a bit skeptical about the ability of the aftermarket ECUs to accurately represent knock. The stock ECU doesn't do it so well, and it's specifically tuned to our motor. The noteable exception might be the bigstuff, but it hasn't had that much time to play out in the wild.

Bottom line, don't believe that just because the FAST isn't indicating knock, that there isn't any. The plugs may show you otherwise.

Keep it richer on pump gas... 11.0 or maybe richer. (Depends on what the truck likes)
Race gas, you can lean it out a bit. 11.9-12.0 or so. There are people who go leaner, but the price of riding that line is broken parts.

I typically find ECUs that are poorly tuned at part throttle... if the guy doesn't spend at least 2-3 hours driving around with you, he didn't get you a good driveability tune. There is quite a bit to gain in the transitions between part and full throttle.

There have also been a fair number of motors that have blown up during part throttle operation. Detonation can occur anywhere.

Turbodig,

We are going to monitor knock/ping and IAT and limit boost accordingly.

It looks like you are recommending a rich AFR at just past Idle/off idle. I have no issue with that as long as I'm not fouling plugs.
Please note that my cat is not installed (have a new one, came with the ATR exhuast kit), so I guess killing a cat is not going to be an issue, due to low AFR.
What is the scoop on overboost as it pertains to "cat delete"? Is this a result of reduced back-pressure?

Since Factory boost was limited to 15 psi, if I leave the boost limited to 15psi, is this an assurance that I will have no problems - or did all of that go out the window with my aftermarket FAST system?

Based on what I've been seeing on this forum, I assumed that <20psi would be reasonably safe.

Thank you very much for you input!

 

[turbodig]

Re: Tuning Help

Turbodig,

We are going to monitor knock/ping and IAT and limit boost accordingly.

It looks like you are recommending a rich AFR at just past Idle/off idle. I have no issue with that as long as I'm not fouling plugs.

Actually, what I'm recommending is that it be *right*.
Typically, what I see is overly rich, or out-of-the-box tunes in the part throttle areas.

There is no magic AFR number there, regardless of what anyone tells you. You tune to what the truck likes, the wide band just helps you get close enough to fine tune.

IAT tells you nothing about how well a motor is tuned. It does tell you how well your intercooler is working, but little else.

Please note that my cat is not installed (have a new one, came with the ATR exhuast kit), so I guess killing a cat is not going to be an issue, due to low AFR.
What is the scoop on overboost as it pertains to "cat delete"? Is this a result of reduced back-pressure?

It's really not as simple as that, at least in the context of the stock WG flapper and electronics.

The FAST data will tell you how well your WG controller is working. Anything outside +/- 1 psi isn't particularly good. The stock WG system is pretty inconsistent, as delivered from the factory.

Since Factory boost was limited to 15 psi, if I leave the boost limited to 15psi, is this an assurance that I will have no problems - or did all of that go out the window with my aftermarket FAST system?

You're making the assumption that the factory boost was always ok at 15 psi.

Given your ability to tune the FAST, you should be able to run 1-2 psi above that, given decent pump gas. Your knock detection and plugs will tell you that.

Also, you need to tune for the "worst day possible", in terms of a street tune... ie, the 100 degree, 90% humidity monster.

Based on what I've been seeing on this forum, I assumed that <20psi would be reasonably safe.

Not on pump gas. There's so much of a variation in gas quality around the country, as well as environmental conditions. You pretty much have to tune for your locale.

 

[SBNova]

Re: Tuning Help

I have been doing some boost tuning on my Ty recently. I have the driveability down, with the exception of that elusive MGP of anything much over 15. I just cant seem to get there, and I dont know why.

Anyway, I have run as much as 20psi on 93 octane, with little to no knock at all. Is it safe?? Maybe. There could still be blown gaskets and broken parts without knock. I have tuned my Ty with what I think is a relatively safe tune. After 210kpa of boost I really pulled timing out, and added soem extra fuel. I have the max retard set high- something like 16 degrees if I recall correctly, just in case. These are my self boost limiters/protection devices. I also pulled alot of timing from any IAT over 80C and over a certain temp in that field too. I added some lower end boost over stock, so it comes on quicker. I must say that my Ty is getting MUCH quicker than when I bought it. On a Belltech recorded run the other day I ran a 7.0 0-60 time, with no boost lauch. I just hit the gas and let the truck shift itself. I think a boost launch wouldve really reduced that time.