Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

[blacktyaffair]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Could a tone wheel be made to mount onto the step on the rear of the balancer by means of an interference fit? Cut the I.D. of the wheel to be .001 or .002 less than the O.D. of the step and press the wheel on. The wheel could be put in an oven, warmed up a bit and then pressed on. Once cooled I don't think the wheel would go anywhere. Stock balancer would be retained and simple enough for most people to do at home.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Could a tone wheel be made to mount onto the step on the rear of the balancer by means of an interference fit? Cut the I.D. of the wheel to be .001 or .002 less than the O.D. of the step and press the wheel on. The wheel could be put in an oven, warmed up a bit and then pressed on. Once cooled I don't think the wheel would go anywhere. Stock balancer would be retained and simple enough for most people to do at home.

Personally, I'd consider pressing a tone wheel on to be a bit outside of the capability of the average wrencher.

Furthermore, unless you pinned it somehow, it wouldn't stay put. The rotational jerking on the crank snout would amaze you.

The likely way this will end up being implemented is a low-cost replacement balancer. Partially to make the manufacture of the wheel easy, but also because many stock balancers have "spun", which would make setting of the base timing inaccurate.

Yes, the balancer adds cost, but it's really the only way to go as far as consistency and reliability are concerned.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

3 bolts mount it to the jesel belt drive . It would be easy to make something similar IMO

Thanks for the pics. I like the way they recessed the sensor bracket and put the adjustment screw out of the way.

 

[blacktyaffair]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Personally, I'd consider pressing a tone wheel on to be a bit outside of the capability of the average wrencher.

Furthermore, unless you pinned it somehow, it wouldn't stay put. The rotational jerking on the crank snout would amaze you.

The likely way this will end up being implemented is a low-cost replacement balancer. Partially to make the manufacture of the wheel easy, but also because many stock balancers have "spun", which would make setting of the base timing inaccurate.

Yes, the balancer adds cost, but it's really the only way to go as far as consistency and reliability are concerned.

I agree with the first statement but I will add that most syty owners are beyond the average wrencher and most not by choice. :rotf:

I actually did consider the rotational jerking of the crank and figured if the wheel had to be pinned maybe a small weld bead or two would be sufficient. Could welding on the balancer unbalance it any more than the wheel itself? Also, the wheel can be skeletonized to reduce it's rotational mass to help it stay in place.

This project is worth the money a replacement balancer would add to the setup, no argument there. I also agree that most stock balancers have spun. Once the wheel is mounted to the stock balancer, spun or not, a new TDC mark could be made directly on the tone wheel and the mark could be indexed to the leading edge of the timing tab since the wheel would be under it. The use of a new replacement balancer would not do away with the need to verify TDC, at least not for me.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that a spun balancer need not be replaced but if that is what it takes to make this happen I'm still in as most will be I'm sure.

Now if I only knew someone with a waterjet table.....

Dig, What sensor would you recommend?

Thanks Dig and Renz for willing to invest your time in this. :tup:

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Resurrecting this a bit...

I think I've devised a way to make a ring that will work with the existing balancer.

In an earlier post in this thread, Hood measured the outer diameter of the inner ring of a stock balancer:
http://www.syty.net/forums/showpost.php?p=523788&postcount=84

What I'm looking for, is for folks who have a stock SyTy/4.3 balancer lying around, to measure this outer diameter of the inner ring. It'll need to be measured with a digital caliper or something else that's a precision device- the Stanley tape measurement isn't gonna cut it.

I'm hoping that we can bank on a tolerance swing of .005 or less, which will allow for a ring to be set-screwed to this inner ring.

Please post your measurements here if you're able to do this.

Measure a couple of times to make sure the reading is "real", it's not always easy to get consistent measurements on round items. If your balancer is painted or coated, please note that.


Thanks,

 

[Eric Fischer]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Please post your measurements here if you're able to do this.

Measure a couple of times to make sure the reading is "real", it's not always easy to get consistent measurements on round items. If your balancer is painted or coated, please note that.


Thanks,

If no one else does this by tomorrow, then I can measure it tomorrow.

 

[sytyguy]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I relinked the pics from the earlier post. They should be working now.

 

[SY2455]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Resurrecting this a bit...

I think I've devised a way to make a ring that will work with the existing balancer.

In an earlier post in this thread, Hood measured the outer diameter of the inner ring of a stock balancer:
http://www.syty.net/forums/showpost.php?p=523788&postcount=84

What I'm looking for, is for folks who have a stock SyTy/4.3 balancer lying around, to measure this outer diameter of the inner ring. It'll need to be measured with a digital caliper or something else that's a precision device- the Stanley tape measurement isn't gonna cut it.

I'm hoping that we can bank on a tolerance swing of .005 or less, which will allow for a ring to be set-screwed to this inner ring.

Please post your measurements here if you're able to do this.

Measure a couple of times to make sure the reading is "real", it's not always easy to get consistent measurements on round items. If your balancer is painted or coated, please note that.


Thanks,

Dig, My truck is up in the air right now and on the back side of the balancer there is the machine part of the inner ring that is wider then the rubber for the outer ring. Anyway on my stock balancer with the light coating of surface rust the measurement is 4.439" for the inner ring. I recheck 5 times, this measurement was taken with old school NSK Precision Dial Calipers.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

After Hood re-linked the pics, they weren't what I was after.

I'll post up some pics of the actual measurement I'm looking for this afternoon.

 

[sytyguy]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Here's the full pic gallery back from when I took em: http://hoodtuned.com/other/

I just remembered that I have 2 stock balancers in the garage. Will measure them tonight.

 

[MikeRenz]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

i though i wanted to attach to the stock balancer and that idea got axed due to the age of the balancer and it sucking for being a 2 piece design. I wanted this method since it wouldn't require as much removal of things to install. But someone was opposed to it, but not sure who/why now.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Here's the measurement I'm after:

My lame attempt at a cardboard prototype of the ring:

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

i though i wanted to attach to the stock balancer and that idea got axed due to the age of the balancer and it sucking for being a 2 piece design. I wanted this method since it wouldn't require as much removal of things to install. But someone was opposed to it, but not sure who/why now.

The downer was how to attach it... we didn't have a decent method of mounting it.
Whether this will actually work remains to be seen, but we still have the option of another balancer if it doesn't.

I think a 1/2" thick wheel with 3 set screws to hold it to the inner ring will work. Drilling dimples in the ring for the set screws to "seat" into will hold it in place. The set screws will have to be inside the notches to keep from triggering the coils at the wrong time.

Could still do a 2-piece, if we can figure out a good way to get the halves to re-attach. For right now, though, getting the one-piece wheel up and running will be the first step so we can shake all the other details out of the system.

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

What would it take to build a shorter pillow?

 

[SY2455]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Here's the measurement I'm after:

Dig,That is the measurement that I listed in posting #228.

 

[ziembic]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

I have a balancer that is off my truck I will get it measured this weekend.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Dig,That is the measurement that I listed in posting #228.

Cool, I suspected it was. Mine was closer to 4.437 (which is about 4 7/16), so a .002 swing isn't too bad.

 

[autoaddictions]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Why not use a pioneer balancer!! Its also SFI rated. Does it make sense to use a 20 year old balancer with dry rotted rubber.. Just thinking out loud.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

Why not use a pioneer balancer!! Its also SFI rated. Does it make sense to use a 20 year old balancer with dry rotted rubber.. Just thinking out loud.

That's option B, and I can see that being an option for people who want to go that way or have aftermarket
balancers already. Near-term concern is to just get it all working so we can get some test hours on it.
The only change to the overall system to make an aftermarket balancer work would be a different wheel.

Just to be clear, though, the wheel here has nothing to do with the rubber parts of the balancer - the outer ring can slide all over, and it won't affect wheel timing. The only time it would come into play is when setting the timing with the stock mark.

 

[nallj92]

Re: Distributerless Ignition possiblity.. (working on it)

besides machining the ring, we would need to have the notches machined out as well? what kind of sensor would be needed? OEM?

never mind, re-read the thread again, questions answered.