BigBadSmoosh
Picking fights on I-65 since 2013
Re: Piston squirters
I'm scared.
TT350 said:
I'm scared.
Piston squirters
- Thread starter TT350
- Start date
turbodig
Active member
Re: Piston squirters
I'd rate it as an "it depends" thing.
The tractor pullers have been running 'em on turbo diesels for years... but they run much
higher manifold pressures. The old trick was to drill a hole in the main saddles and pound
a carb jet in it, grind a groove from the main bearing feed. The jet was aimed at the back
of each piston.
If you're going to run lotsa boost for long periods of time (> 2 minutes), they're a big help.
You're going to lose some power to windage if you run high revs. (6500+)
If you're going to run some spray, they'd be a good idea also.
In a lower boost app (15-20), I don't think you'd see much of a reduction in deto in terms
of running additional boost, particularly in a 1/4 mile run. Road racing or Open road stuff,
you definitely would.
Bottom line, I don't think it'll hurt ya, unless you're planning on spinning 'er to 8 grand.
About all it costs you is time and a couple of jets.
My .02
Dig
TT350 said:
I'd rate it as an "it depends" thing.
The tractor pullers have been running 'em on turbo diesels for years... but they run much
higher manifold pressures. The old trick was to drill a hole in the main saddles and pound
a carb jet in it, grind a groove from the main bearing feed. The jet was aimed at the back
of each piston.
If you're going to run lotsa boost for long periods of time (> 2 minutes), they're a big help.
You're going to lose some power to windage if you run high revs. (6500+)
If you're going to run some spray, they'd be a good idea also.
In a lower boost app (15-20), I don't think you'd see much of a reduction in deto in terms
of running additional boost, particularly in a 1/4 mile run. Road racing or Open road stuff,
you definitely would.
Bottom line, I don't think it'll hurt ya, unless you're planning on spinning 'er to 8 grand.
About all it costs you is time and a couple of jets.
My .02
Dig
Re: Piston squirters
Funny you mention mains and a bearing groove as the oil source...I ran a google search earlier looking for the ones I had dealt with and found the above pic...close, but doesn't look like the mains are the oil source on the powerstroke one..... I also ran across a porsche v8 928 S4 at this site and they talk about 2 holes in each main being the source of the pressurized oil....so it looks doable for TT350 that knows how to machine and drill things of this nature....I wonder what that does to oil pressure? You would probably need a better oil pump than the norm....
quote "Lower block with bearing shells still in place, if you look closely you can see the holes in the bearings which feed the piston squirters."
turbodig said:
Funny you mention mains and a bearing groove as the oil source...I ran a google search earlier looking for the ones I had dealt with and found the above pic...close, but doesn't look like the mains are the oil source on the powerstroke one..... I also ran across a porsche v8 928 S4 at this site and they talk about 2 holes in each main being the source of the pressurized oil....so it looks doable for TT350 that knows how to machine and drill things of this nature....I wonder what that does to oil pressure? You would probably need a better oil pump than the norm....
quote "Lower block with bearing shells still in place, if you look closely you can see the holes in the bearings which feed the piston squirters."
moronmechanic
New member
Re: Piston squirters
I've done similar things with marine engines. I like to drill a 1/8" hole in the oil passage near the bottom of the cylinders and take a 1" or so piece of 1/8" copper tubing bent in a "U" and JB weld them in place. Then I would take a punch and smack divits in the block around the JB, just for added security. Sometimes, If a high volume pump wasn't available for the engine- I would take some wire cutters and pinch the tip of the nozzel into a "figure 8". Never had a problem with them. I think I'll be doing the same thing with the 4.3 I'm building up for my Monza, that is, if the oil passages are in a good location...
I would never try drilling extra holes in the crank or rods, it would weaken the part as well as take oil from the bearings.
-Chuck-
I've done similar things with marine engines. I like to drill a 1/8" hole in the oil passage near the bottom of the cylinders and take a 1" or so piece of 1/8" copper tubing bent in a "U" and JB weld them in place. Then I would take a punch and smack divits in the block around the JB, just for added security. Sometimes, If a high volume pump wasn't available for the engine- I would take some wire cutters and pinch the tip of the nozzel into a "figure 8". Never had a problem with them. I think I'll be doing the same thing with the 4.3 I'm building up for my Monza, that is, if the oil passages are in a good location...
I would never try drilling extra holes in the crank or rods, it would weaken the part as well as take oil from the bearings.
-Chuck-
TT350
Manufacturer
Re: Piston squirters
I have a friend with a low 8 sec 408 SBF he sprays about 500 NOS
and piston failure has been a problem. Where the valve relief runs off the edge of the piston the ring land is thin and that part likes
to lift do to heat. We out fitted his motor with these last weekend.
I should have some feed make on this very soon.
I have a friend with a low 8 sec 408 SBF he sprays about 500 NOS
and piston failure has been a problem. Where the valve relief runs off the edge of the piston the ring land is thin and that part likes
to lift do to heat. We out fitted his motor with these last weekend.
I should have some feed make on this very soon.
bigtime
Sy-Ty Builder
Re: Piston squirters
I think this is a piston ring package problem. I use a tool steel, .043 back cut top ring. I am .300 down. My *wall* left on the eyebrow is only .140. I uses this same piston in a couple of cars with 2-3 stages no problems. I think the squirter idea is neet on road race cars but don't believe it will cure a drag race NOS issue. Why so long of a rod?
TT350 said:
I think this is a piston ring package problem. I use a tool steel, .043 back cut top ring. I am .300 down. My *wall* left on the eyebrow is only .140. I uses this same piston in a couple of cars with 2-3 stages no problems. I think the squirter idea is neet on road race cars but don't believe it will cure a drag race NOS issue. Why so long of a rod?
TT350
Manufacturer
Re: Piston squirters
I didn’t pix combo as for as the rod is concerned.
This car is 3200 lb’s and has gone 8-0’s at a buck 80
+ this is not EZ to do on a 4’’ bore motor. It gets turned
8500-8800 depending on the gear we chose for the track.
at that RPM if the pistons are much over 440 grams it will
pull the rods apart. The piston in the pic look to be 475-500
grams if it’s a small block piston. The piston squirters is something
I run by my buddy and he said hell ya I’m gon-a try that.
My new motor is 4-5 months away so we are gon-a ginny
pig on his. The thing to do is run 4.125 bore dart block but
his budget won’t let it happen. As far as oil psi is concerned
stay tuned!!
I didn’t pix combo as for as the rod is concerned.
This car is 3200 lb’s and has gone 8-0’s at a buck 80
+ this is not EZ to do on a 4’’ bore motor. It gets turned
8500-8800 depending on the gear we chose for the track.
at that RPM if the pistons are much over 440 grams it will
pull the rods apart. The piston in the pic look to be 475-500
grams if it’s a small block piston. The piston squirters is something
I run by my buddy and he said hell ya I’m gon-a try that.
My new motor is 4-5 months away so we are gon-a ginny
pig on his. The thing to do is run 4.125 bore dart block but
his budget won’t let it happen. As far as oil psi is concerned
stay tuned!!
TheNeek
this is my serious face
Re: Piston squirters
Chiming in late on this one. The mill I'm building for my BMW has factory oil squirting that everyone is referring too. The nozzles fit into the main bearing landings in a groove and are angled towards each cylinder. I can take pictures if anyone is interested. The squirters are a very simple design, and merely fit inside a drilled hole. The Honda ones pictured probably capture a larger surface area of the piston crown. The BMW ones are "shadowed" by the connecting rod. When I tore down the block one side of the piston was super clean, the other looked like it had 100,000 miles on it. The 4cylinder it was on runs 10.5:1 CR and spins to about 7grand. So detonation can become a problem. Not sure how oiling was dealt with, but the squirters have a very small apature. I don't know how SyTy oiling works, but in BMW's all we have to do is shim the releif valve spring on the oil pump (rotary style) and you can bump up the pressure in 5 psi increments with a 1/8 inch shim (not REALLY a linear relationship like this but close enough).
Chiming in late on this one. The mill I'm building for my BMW has factory oil squirting that everyone is referring too. The nozzles fit into the main bearing landings in a groove and are angled towards each cylinder. I can take pictures if anyone is interested. The squirters are a very simple design, and merely fit inside a drilled hole. The Honda ones pictured probably capture a larger surface area of the piston crown. The BMW ones are "shadowed" by the connecting rod. When I tore down the block one side of the piston was super clean, the other looked like it had 100,000 miles on it. The 4cylinder it was on runs 10.5:1 CR and spins to about 7grand. So detonation can become a problem. Not sure how oiling was dealt with, but the squirters have a very small apature. I don't know how SyTy oiling works, but in BMW's all we have to do is shim the releif valve spring on the oil pump (rotary style) and you can bump up the pressure in 5 psi increments with a 1/8 inch shim (not REALLY a linear relationship like this but close enough).