Engine Rebuild / Recipe

TurboManiacal

Donating Member
Rene,

I'm also looking into stateside crank prep for you. This will take sometime and won't be quick...but it will be good. More to follow.
 

myclone

Donating Member
bezerk said:
is there a way i can buy a crankshaft wich is already balanced and nitred? so i can order everything in one time?

You can probably get a nitrided crank from the likes of Mike at RPM but it cant be balanced without the pistons/rods/flex plate/harmonic damper. Those components MUST be in hand for weighing and modifying when the crank is balanced.

and should it be save if i just buy the JE-pistons for #30 oversize?
the company told me it would be save because it''s a large oversize

The .030 oversized pistons will probably be safe but to be absolutely sure the cylinder bores have to be measured. Since logistics and shipping is an issue for you I would personally measure the bores first to be sure since getting pistons that were too small would require returning them to the supplyer and re-ordering. In this situation you would be the one that will have to decide which would be the best route for you.

FWIW... Ive never, personally, found a 4.3 block that required more than a .030 over bore to bring into spec in the ~dozen or so that Ive built but then again you may end up with one that requires a over bore of .040+. Thats why I am stressing the point to you that the bores need to be measured before ordering pistons. Especially in your situation where returning mis-ordered parts and re-ordering new ones is a hassle.

HTH
 

bezerk

New member
Myclone
I have measured up the bore, i finally found the instrument, it was 4.00
So that wouldn''t be the problem.
i don''t know about this one, but could it be that somebody in the US buys me a flexplate and a harmonic damper and the pistons and 5.7 rods, let it be balanced in the US and than ship it??
i don''t know what a flexplate and a damper cost, but it"s just an ID.

Sigo
Thanks for taking care of the parts.
and i jsut took out mine heatercore, it might be leak, will tell you after i test it.

GF is back from work, erase mind and talk about sweet thinks and not SyTy related!!!

maybe i think to much,??

Rene
 

myclone

Donating Member
bezerk said:
Myclone
I have measured up the bore, i finally found the instrument, it was 4.00
So that wouldn''t be the problem.

Just some FYI here and a few questions..

1. When you measured the bore where did you measure it at? If you just measured the very top of the bore it will be 4.00" no matter what as any wear will be ~1/4" below the top of the bore due to the piston rings location below the top of the piston. You MUST measure the bore in the wear region (where the piston rings contact the bore) and take measurements at the top AND bottom of the bore in this region at a minimum.

2. Did you measure the cylinder bore left to right or inside to outside? You will possibly find more wear of the cylinder walls at the inside and outside diameter due to the rod angle levering the piston hard against the inside and outside of cylinder walls as the crank rotates. This is commonly called "egged shaping" here and if this has happened then the larger of all your measurements will be found by measuring the diameter of the bore from the lifter valley side (inside) to the ouside at various locations in the bore.

3. You need to be aware of cylinder wall "taper" also. This is another reason for measuring the the cylinder walls in at least two locations, if not more, the way I explained in #2 above. Taper is a situation where the top of the bore, in the wear region, is smaller or larger than the bottom of the bore. Basically the bore is shaped like a "cone" rather than being a perfect cylinder shape due to various wear charactoristics.



i don''t know about this one, but could it be that somebody in the US buys me a flexplate and a harmonic damper and the pistons and 5.7 rods, let it be balanced in the US and than ship it??
i don''t know what a flexplate and a damper cost, but it"s just an ID.

I can prolly help you out here as I have a machinist local that does good balance work. If you find a nitrided crank, flex plate, harmonic damper, pistons, and rods and want to have it shipped to me I can get it balanced for you then crate it and ship it to you. If you are only doing a mild build then I have extra stock flex plates and dampers that I will donate so you only have to procure the crank, rods, and pistons.

Of course we'll need to work out what it will cost to ship it and all but as far as Im concerned all I would want reimbursed for is the actual cost of shipping the parts to you.
 

TurboManiacal

Donating Member
myclone said:
bezerk said:
I don't know about this one, but could it be that somebody in the US buys me a flexplate and a harmonic damper and the pistons and 5.7 rods, let it be balanced in the US and than ship it??
i don''t know what a flexplate and a damper cost, but it"s just an ID.

I can prolly help you out here as I have a machinist local that does good balance work. If you find a nitrided crank, flex plate, harmonic damper, pistons, and rods and want to have it shipped to me I can get it balanced for you then crate it and ship it to you. If you are only doing a mild build then I have extra stock flex plates and dampers that I will donate so you only have to procure the crank, rods, and pistons.

Of course we'll need to work out what it will cost to ship it and all but as far as Im concerned all I would want reimbursed for is the actual cost of shipping the parts to you.

Dave...I'm working on this one through Wally. Gonna order all parts through hood have John pick them up and perform this work. Crank will by Cryo'd not Nitrided for a better effect. Working on pricing and "shopping list" now.
 

myclone

Donating Member
Sigo said:
myclone said:
bezerk said:
I don't know about this one, but could it be that somebody in the US buys me a flexplate and a harmonic damper and the pistons and 5.7 rods, let it be balanced in the US and than ship it??
i don''t know what a flexplate and a damper cost, but it"s just an ID.

I can prolly help you out here as I have a machinist local that does good balance work. If you find a nitrided crank, flex plate, harmonic damper, pistons, and rods and want to have it shipped to me I can get it balanced for you then crate it and ship it to you. If you are only doing a mild build then I have extra stock flex plates and dampers that I will donate so you only have to procure the crank, rods, and pistons.

Of course we'll need to work out what it will cost to ship it and all but as far as Im concerned all I would want reimbursed for is the actual cost of shipping the parts to you.

Dave...I'm working on this one through Wally. Gonna order all parts through hood have John pick them up and perform this work. Crank will by Cryo'd not Nitrided for a better effect. Working on pricing and "shopping list" now.

Cool.. Sounds like you guys have a plan then. If I can help from my end in any way just gimme a holler siggy :wink: .
 

TurboManiacal

Donating Member
Dave,

Need to call you anyways...might have to arrange a good time to chat this weekend.

Okay...I'm going to start the Shopping list if anybody wants to chime in...feel free. All parts will probably be purchased in the next 2 weeks.

(If I screw up terminology let me know)

Top End
Heads = Vortecs (big valves 2.02 / 1.60? John?)
Intakes = Welded ala Renz

pistons... TRW L2441 .30
rods..... Eagles H beam CRS5700s6
piston rings... Total Seal 909003001-08

comp cams 09-422-8

ARP Bolts



Bottom End
GM 4 Bolt Mains
Big Flex Plate (Part #? E / Hood?)


Gaskets / Odds & Ends
JS Design Motor Mount w/ ES Poly Bushing (On Hand)
ZQ8 Steering Box (Rene?)
TQ Converter (Rene?)
MSD Distributor (Or rebuilt?) (Rene?)

Suggestions? Search


Sources

Some things taken from willy's post:

http://www.syty.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9302

Rocker Stud w/ Vortec Discussion:

http://www.syty.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=27280&highlight=engine+building+parts

SRP Pistons recommended by Mike Lee over TRW's for cost:

http://www.syty.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26590&highlight=engine+building+parts

B&M Flexplate. Balance w/ Assembly? (This has implications on me using this!)

http://www.syty.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=26122&highlight=engine+building+parts

CavScout & His learning curve:

http://www.syty.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=24539&highlight=engine+building+parts

More Vortec discussion (Pulled from Cav's post):

http://syty.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=23725&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=louis

More to follow.
 

myclone

Donating Member
WTF??? I had a post here this AM about flywheels/flex plates. Dont tell me the post deleting punks are back?
 

TurboManiacal

Donating Member
myclone said:
WTF??? I had a post here this AM about flywheels/flex plates. Dont tell me the post deleting punks are back?

Yeah I remember that...I asked for some cleanup on aisle four (triple posts by rene...) dunno where yours went though..
 

Ian Turgeon

Cascading Inspiration
I think this is myclone's post that I nabbed.


This is the only one I really dont agree with unless there is something I missed that was never an issue for any of my automotive antics/parts swapping. There is a question on what flex plates will fit what in that thread (V8 vs V6)..

Stuff relevant to syty:

A SBC (small block chevy) flex plate/fly wheel will interchange with 4.3V6. Period. Ive done it. As long as its the 86 and up one piece rear main seal. Dont wanna take my word for it? Lemme quote from the GM performance parts catalog:

Group 0.662-1.069

Note: Components in these groups are interchangable between V6/90 deg and small-block V8 engines. See the Chevrolet small block V8 section for the following heavy duty GM performance parts:

Crank shaft pulley bolts
Flywheels and flex plates
Timing gears and chains
Pulleys
Water pumps
Oil pumps
Starters
Spark plug wires

So, FWIW when I order my flex plate for the engine Im doing for my truck I will be ordering an externally balanced, 168 tooth, and SFI approved piece for a SBC. Done deal.
 

bezerk

New member
So i got back after i read Myclones reply, and i got a little unsecure about the measurment i did, i have a 2point gauge, wich isn''t as good as a 3point gauge, but annyway, when you know how to do it....(moving around till you get the lowest measurment).at one spot)
and did it all the way over the walls,on each cilinder so the maximum i meausred is 0.002 inch! over the 4.00 inch.

and afcourse i have read all the post Sigo has found regarding this subject, thanks!


ABout the part list.



piston rings... Total Seal 909003001-08

i read an artilce about something with Albert seal...?? can''t find the summit mag. at his moment.

About the steering box, please explain.

about the TC, i believe that is what you ment by
TQ Converter (Rene?)
have a bigger one already, atleast the guy i bought the Ty from told me that, Andre also told me his was alot smaller.
So not in on that one at this moment.

about the ignition, depends on all the cost.

Still about all the articles i read about the Vortec-conversion, don''t know wich parts i should use, is it me, or does everybody dissagree with somebody else his setup. :agrue:

Not looking to go Extreem fast, just want to build an relaible engine wich could stand up to 500HP, but not a must.

would be happy to have estamated cost of all the parts.
and i will go out to give some extra water to the money tree!

Does the heads come with valves and springs?

So hear is alitlle about the things i do to the Ty at this moment, not that it''s important, but funny, completly took out the carpet, and chairs,
took out heatercore to test it(was fine).
and completly washed the carpet including the isolation stuff.
i felt like an old lady.

Rene
 

myclone

Donating Member
SyTyArchives said:
i horribly appologize ;(.. I'll see if I can recover it from the void.

No worries. Just checking to make sure we werent back to post deleting/me throwing tantrums again :) and the post you found is the one I put up this AM.




bezerk said:
So i got back after i read Myclones reply, and i got a little unsecure about the measurment i did, i have a 2point gauge, wich isn''t as good as a 3point gauge, but annyway, when you know how to do it....(moving around till you get the lowest measurment).at one spot)
and did it all the way over the walls,on each cilinder so the maximum i meausred is 0.002 inch! over the 4.00 inch.

If you have only .002" of wear then a .030 over bore will more than suffice IMO.



ABout the part list.



piston rings... Total Seal 909003001-08

i read an artilce about something with Albert seal...?? can''t find the summit mag. at his moment.

Ive used Total Seal rings and have never had any problems with them but I personally use the Childs & Albert ZGS rings. I use the C&A rings only because thats just what Ive become accustomed to using. Either company produces a good product IMO so it comes down to which is readily available to you and serves your needs.


Still about all the articles i read about the Vortec-conversion, don''t know wich parts i should use, is it me, or does everybody dissagree with somebody else his setup. :agrue:

Im kinda lost on what to dissagree on here but the Vortec conversion is a very good bang for the buck type mod once the intake is modified to bolt to them. Even completely stock Vortec heads have went into the tens in the 1/4 so no exotic parts are needed IMO. If you want even more out of them then installing bigger valves and the correct valve springs to support your cam will net you even better performance.

Not looking to go Extreem fast, just want to build an relaible engine wich could stand up to 500HP, but not a must.

IMO thats not too much to ask if you have the right combonation of parts, tuning, and the desire to go through the trouble of keeping the engine well maintained.

Does the heads come with valves and springs?

Most all of them do that Ive found for sale on Ebay and the like. Depending on what sized cam you use then you may need new springs to accomodate the extra lift. I recal John Waller discussing this a while back so Im sure a search on "valve springs" would turn up the correct info. If you buy a set of complete used head I would highly recommend new valve seals and a valve job at the least.

HTH

ps.. Sorry Ive sorta hijacked your thread but I hope some things Ive passed along have been helpful. Also, Id like to say that some of the procedures or parts Ive recommened are just my opinion and there is probably a different way to reach your goals that other people have used successfully. So, if anyone has info other than what Ive stated feel free to add yours, contradict me, or whatever. :)
 

bezerk

New member
ps.. Sorry Ive sorta hijacked your thread

Not at all. Really thanks alot, i''am out here on my own.
I know 1 Syclone, wich is Stock, and is enjoying his ride more than mine.
i know 1 Typhoon wich is for sale, has alot of ATR stuff on it, but ................... it''s for sale.

So bassicly i''am the only one here in the netherlands who completly dissasambled his Typhoon, and pulled his engine twice in less than 500 miles.

So your help is really appriciated!!!!!!!

About the vortec;

wich cam should i need??? (going for stock valves and springs)
wich lifters.rockers etc.

to bad i have 4 SyTy heads lying around, and there are 2 people trying to make me buy vortecs :lol:
 

TurboManiacal

Donating Member
I think we're getting down to crunch time folks. We need to focus on the shopping list.

I've added my 2cents and I really need the smart ones to hash out Part #'s.
 

myclone

Donating Member
Sigo said:
I think we're getting down to crunch time folks. We need to focus on the shopping list.

I've added my 2cents and I really need the smart ones to hash out Part #'s.

Dunno if Im one of "the smart ones" but heres some part #s for you to chew on. BTW, I put this up yesterday and it dissapeared in ~1 hour and I didnt feel like typing it again. :-? :(

timing chain (Cloyes): 220-9-3145 (jegs)
oil pump: 689-M55A (jegs)
ARP oil pump drive: 070-134-7901 (jegs)
push rods 270-10621 (jegs/**)
* Valve springs that will work with 422 cam: 249-911-16 (jegs/**
Eagle rods: CRS570063D (manufacturers part #)
Pistons (Speed Pro): 844-L2441F30 (jegs/you'll need 6 as they are sold individually)
Rings (IMO) Childs & Albert ZGS: RS-40ZX4.035 (manufacturerers part #/**)
Flex plate B&M SFI approved: 130-20239 (jegs)
ARP Head bolts (pro series): 070-234-3701 (jegs/**

Notes:

Anything with a ** symbol comes in quantities for a V8 and will usually be cheaper than buying them for a V6 as SBC V8 stuff is readily stocked where as V6 stuff is usually not and has to be ordered. I buy almost all my stuff for a SBC due to the pricing and after you buy enough stuff to use on V6s you get a "free" set since you have extras each time. So, it may be to your benefit, as far as cost, to price V6 quantities as you wont need the extras unless you are getting into building engines like myself.

The above valve springs with the * symbol are CompCams valve springs and will work with the 422 cam lift but may require enlarging the spring seat area in the head (I will verify and post what I find). Any machine shop can do this mod very easily or you can buy the tool and do it yourself (not recommended for newbs :) ).

HTH
 

Methuselah

New member
As far as I am aware, you are not able to order 4.3 v6 rod bearings from Jegs or Summit (dont know about Northern Auto), as they are different from both small and large journal 350 bearings. So unless your engine builder supplies them, you'll need to take a trip to <gasp> Autozone, which stocks Clevittes for our application.

I thought this was so incredible I had to share it.
________
NO2 VAPORIZER
 
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